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May 10, 2019

Recruitment and Staffing in Long Term Care with Alvin Kahn

In the episode, we meet Alvin Kahn, Principal, Executive Director of Recruitment at Alvin Kahn and Associates.

Alvin's firm has been assisting nursing homes to fill their hard-to-place positions for the last 25 years.

His unique style and direct approach have enabled their firm to reach the levels of success they've attained.


Alvin Kahn -Principal, Executive Director of Recruitment at Alvin Kahn and Associates

30 years ago, Alvin started recruiting for hospitals across the country. Eventually Alvin was promoted to working in the corporate office doing trainings and continued to recruit.

In 1995, Alvin started out on his own, with Alvin Kahn and Associates, a recruitment company specifically focused on the nursing home industry.

What pulled to the nursing home world from the acute care/hospital industry?

There was a group from Milwaukee Wisconsin, that started working with the rehab in the nursing home industry and they needed someone to manage their Eastern operation. Alvin was hired by this company to help out with in several states.

When that company eventually sold, Alvin was able to use the relationships he had built to go out on his own and as they say, the rest is history.

Do you help fill line staff for nursing homes for RNs, LPNs and CNAs?

AK focuses primarily on management level and above and the facilities work internally to fill the other positions.

What is your magic trick to find the candidates that are the right fit for the specific positions requested? What can you do that the facility cannot do?
Facilities reach out to us because the candidates and the facilities are concerned that the job search should be kept confidential. That’s a reputation that was earned and created over time.
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The employer does not want the current employee to know that they are looking and the candidate does not want their current boss to know that they are looking, lest they lose their jobs before they are ready to move on.

We only send over candidates that are qualified and have a really great potential of being an actual fit for the position.

If you work with an online resource such as Indeed.com or Craigslist.com, even if you put the ads up correctly and sponsor them, you will still receive many, many candidates that are completely not qualified.

A good recruitment firm will only send over pre-screened candidates which they genuinely believe have an excellent chance of success. That is what is done at Alvin Kahn and associates.

The firm actually works hard to establish a relationship with the candidates to really see the full picture and understand their background. Equipped with this information, there are much better chances that the candidate will be the right candidate for the position.

Do you find a practice that the nursing home operators or candidates are doing that are surprising to you?

At times, a candidate will share more information than we find necessary. When asked why they are looking to make a change, they may share more information and details than we feel we need to know.

We understand that there are always at least 2 sides to every story.

At times there are candidates that have had a troubled past. The facilities will generally pass right over these candidates because they don’t have the time or resources to fully vet out the candidates.

As a recruitment firm, we encourage candidates to be upfront with their past and that they share any skeletons that they may have in the closet. This is in their past interest, because they will come out later and at that point, it can derail the entire process.

Retainer vs. Contingency

Retainer search firms are paid an amount in advance to be available to fill positions as the needs arise. Contingency search firms, like Alvin Kahn and Associates, are paid only if and when they successfully place the candidates in their positions.

Over The Phone

Almost all of the work that is done in finding and screening candidates is done over the phone. It’s still really effective to speak over the phone (INSERT LINK TO PHONE LIVE), and it’s working.

When a candidate comes into the office, there is lots of wasted time on the part of the candidate and the firm that could be better used to find the right candidates.

The firm is now looking to do video conferencing to add the face to face connection to the process without compromising on the efficiency and use of everyone’s time.

Is there any particular piece of advice that you wish someone would have told you earlier on in your career?

There are 2 points here.

You must have mentors and you need to learn from everyone to some extent. However, don’t listen to everyone else’s advice. What works for them, works for them. You must infuse your professional activities with your own unique talents and personality.

Additionally, it’s critical to focus on the recruitment results when speaking with candidates. You are not their social worker and all conversation and engagement should focused on that end goal.

What’s your favorite part of your business that lights you up inside?

The greatest excitement is when we find are able to successfully place a candidate with a company. We actually make a toast together to celebrate the event.

And no, it’s not just because that’s when we make our money. We get that special sense of accomplishment and joy when the candidate was not able to find employment without our help. Or when the employer was not able to fill the position on their own.

Parting Advice

The process must be taken seriously. Candidates should know the facilities well before approaching the recruiters and the facilities should also be equally invested in the process.

Links and Resources

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Transcript

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I was fired for killing a resident. Do you have position for me?

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Never that quite that. You know, there are times you have to be tested as

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people might have done things early in their life they regretted

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and they go for coming and they really are good candidate. We really try to

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look at the total person trying to get references with most

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cases. Welcome to

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the nursing home podcast. Your goto source for professional

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insights in the longterm care industry. You're from leaders and experts

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as they share current and practical insights to help make the most of your day.

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I'm the longterm care financial specialist. What that means is I help people

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plan for the inevitable. Nobody wants to think about getting

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old, but it's possible that someday we might need a little bit of care.

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Here's your host, nursing home administrator turned podcaster

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schmoel Septimatptimash.

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Welcome to this episode of the nursing home podcast.

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I'm really excited to do today's episode. Today I have with

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me Alvin Khan. Alvin is the principal and executive

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director of recruitment at Alvin Con and Associates and interview

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strategist. Well, we have an interview right here. So Alvin, thank you

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very much for taking some time and joining us here today

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on the nursing home podcast. So welcome aboard,

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Alvin. Thank you. Look forward. Okay,

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excellent. So you actually suggested

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when I posted on LinkedIn that we're going to start the nursing home podcast.

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It was requested people wanted to hear from you

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specifically and I'm really glad that we're able to make this happen together.

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So before we even get too deep into the

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show, if you don't mind, would you be able to share with us a little

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bit about how you evolved into the role

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that you play right now in the nursing home industry? So just a little

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bit, let our listeners know who you are briefly

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and maybe let me know who you are as well.

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Actually starts back about 30 years ago,

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I started recruiting for hospitals in an office

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called Daniel. Our office was part of

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a franchise of about 300 offices.

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Okay. And I started off working in healthcare with hospitals

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across the country. But eventually I moved up within the

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system into their corporate office and began working

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in training and also also recruiting for them. And then eventually I went

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on my own to start my own office, which is around 1995.

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And we really got very entrenched working with nursing homes and the rest

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of history. We worked with nursing home since right around 1995.

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Okay. So the nursing home industry is different from the other industries

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that you are working in. Again, going off script here

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a little bit, but what pulled you to the nursing homework? There's so many challenges

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in the nursing home world and you know,

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you are in the hospital world. Is there a specific thing that pulls you

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in this direction? I'll tell you, I didn't

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know anything about the nursing home ministry. I really never realized there

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was such a large industry out there when I first started working with them.

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But there was a group originally from Milwaukee, Wisconsin,

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and there was a group that had just started up and they were being involved

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with working in the rehab with the nursing home industry and

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they needed someone for their out east operations and they

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contacted me to add it up. So I got involved with them.

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In fact, I got very involved with them for about a year and a half

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and I was a troubleshooter. I helped them to fill all their positions,

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not only in New York and New Jersey, but we really helped

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them out in other states that they were having issues with. So I got

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very entrenched when their company was sold. I just continued on

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on my own. And both of these relationships with other clients

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and again, the rest is history. Got it. That makes sense.

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So that's how it kind of evolved into

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what it is today. So as a nursing home administrator,

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staffing is always a challenge.

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The most acute part of the challenge that affects,

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I guess the day to day operations the most is the nursing

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staff, nurses and teenage. Does your company deal specifically with

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upper level management, administrative directors of nursing or

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do you deal with even filling other positions?

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Well, when it comes to nursing, we do upper level management

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positions. We really don't get involved with nurse staffing as far

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as the staff part of it. But upper

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levels, from CMDs people to nursing directors

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and assistant directors of nursing, all the other positions

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within the facility, it could be administrative or

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staff within those areas such as social work or

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within food service, et cetera. Okay, so basically

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to simplify the management level and above you

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would help find and filling those positions. But the line staff,

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the nurses, the CNA, the staff in the kitchen and all that,

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so that would be on the facilities to fill those positions,

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is that correct? I was going to say really mostly for

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nursing we don't do the line staff, but for good clients,

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nursing is a whole other area. It really requires a company for the line staff

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to really be involved in that area. But the line staff within the other areas,

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we really help our clients out as much as we can. Okay, fair enough,

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that makes sense. So now nursing homes,

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everybody knows nursing homes, at least today,

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we're recording this now in May of 2019,

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they're not overflowing with cash and

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obviously if they can fill the positions themselves, they would.

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And the fact that they reach out to you to help fill these critical roles

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obviously is because you have the ability to do what they cannot do or you

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have the time or the resources. So what is the magic trick,

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if you don't mind sharing that you have the ability to

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find the right people and be

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able to fill these positions. You're not located near where

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all the facilities are. From what I understand,

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you work out of state as well.

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How do you identify a candidate and then know the right facility

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to introduce the candidate to? What do you do with the reverse? Do you take

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the facility and try to provide the candidate? Tell me a little bit more

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about that. We are very much joboriented so

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our clients we have many, many positions that work in center office here

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we're quite busy, so we really choose

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really to work hard. When we take a position, we're very motivated to

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fill them. Our clients, when they call us up, they really believe that we

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are going to do it and we obviously work our best and we try to

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be very successful. Not always, but we always work very

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hard to fill the positions. Why do they use us really

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is because a lot of times searches are confidential. They know that when

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they deal with us. We have a reputation of being extremely confidential when

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we do our searches, not only from the point of view, from the employer,

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but also from the candidates. Candidates these days are very concerned

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about their present facilities, hearing about

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them potentially leaving and they're worried about jeopardizing their jobs.

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Correct from both ends. We're very extremely confidential and we don't

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just live in our past. We work really hard.

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We can make 100 phone calls to find a person. It's not unheard of.

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We don't just live on what we have in our computer base or other

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things that would be not requiring much work. We are very hard

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working and we're not satisfied just finding a person. We really want

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to find the right person and that's what motivates us.

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Again, I don't think we've worked directly in

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my past life as a recruiter and as a recruiter, as administrator.

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However, is there a direct correlation between the

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reimbursement for your services and the length of time or

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is it just like if they pass a certain threshold then it's done?

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Let me just add to that the reason why I'm asking. I'm not asking for

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the specifics of how much it costs for per employee and all

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that. If anyone's interested, we'll leave that information at the end of the episode

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and on the website as well. I'm just asking because

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how much is the fee for service tied

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to the ultimate success of the

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employee? I would tell you just last

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week we do quite a number of places in the office. We did

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a placement for one of our clients. That was probably the lowest placement fee

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that we've done in a long time because he's a good client in one position

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filled and we helped them out with it. It probably took

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as much time, if not even more than, let's say, other placements.

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It didn't stop us by trying to cut

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the time down because of the lower place and we just were not motivated

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only by money. We're motivated by making our clients feel that they made the right

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decision by using us and that they have a good person that have found otherwise.

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Okay,

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fair enough. Now, do you find,

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like you mentioned, you could go after the Quick Sale, so to speak, and place

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somebody in there, but it sounds like you've been doing this long enough that

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when you do make the right recommendation and they

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stay there long enough so they're going to kind of adopt

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you as their company whenever they need to fill these positions. Is that

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kind of what happens? I would say.

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I think the companies that we've been working with for the last 15 years and

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we have many clients that are still with us after all these years, they know

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we don't waste your time by sending over people that are just entitled,

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doing that type of work, but are not qualified. We really scrutinize resumes.

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We really spend a lot of time qualifying people so that when they get there,

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officials know that they're not just calling someone or just taking our word,

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but they're hopefully getting someone there would be a good potential for.

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Okay, that's awesome point that you bring. So I've had to hire

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myself, many even management level,

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I've had to search and go through tons of resumes. I've done that,

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indeed. And sometimes Craigslist or wherever

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people are looking at that point for job postings.

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And a lot of these automated systems you can get indeed,

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specifically, you can get six, seven, eight pages

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of results for very specific targeted sponsored ads.

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And you'll get, in my experience, then sometimes 90%

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garbage, 90% that it's not even worth clicking to

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see the resume I'm looking for, let's say a

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marketing director or admissions person, and this one is a manager

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at Dunkin Donuts. And no, thank you.

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Actually, the percentage again, this is not scientific

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numbers, but I found that maybe five or ten, maybe 15% are

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actually people who have nursing home experience under their belt

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and are actually looking for a job and even recruiters sometimes.

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If you have a company that doesn't do what you just described,

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you may get a little bit more

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focused or direct targeted list of resumes, but they're

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not people who there's a mutual interest.

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They're interested in the jobs, interested in the location, and maybe

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interested in hiring them. So that's definitely a very

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big piece. In other words,

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you're not just throwing a bunch of resumes at your clients and seeing

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what sticks, but when you're handing it over, you're handing over

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something that has a very good chance of survival. I would say that

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one of the reasons that we are successful, if we define success as

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being in business for such a long time, is because we don't do that.

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I mean, people we just had another group just call us last

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week because they said, we're very frustrated. We've been using one or two firms and

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all they do is send over resumes. They don't really know what they're

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sending over. They just have a job description similar to what we're looking

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for, but none of the people are really qualified. We really need someone to really

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be able to sort out these resumes and know about the people and be able

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to tell us about these people and tell us why they would be a good

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fit for us. And that's what we do. We just had to hold onto resumes.

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It just doesn't work right. So now, getting back so

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a lot of our listeners are administrators or

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other people with different roles in

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the nursing home industry. So from your perspective,

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do you see any blatant almost like

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errors or mismanagement from the nursing home

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operation inside? In other words, you have the ability

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or shall I say the luxury of seeing operations

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from I don't know if it's a bird's eye view or from down the block

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or whatever euphemism you want to insert. Is there

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anything that comes to mind? How could they really be doing this? But you know

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what? I'm just a recruiter. I'm going to put my nose down and just do

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what I do. Does anything jump to mind or the opposite? Oh my

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goodness, that's so innovative and that's so outstanding, what a particular

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company does. Do you ever get like such AHA, moments either

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for good or for otherwise? Well, I'll tell you, I don't know

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if necessarily with clients, but when we have candidates, a lot of the times

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the candidates will tell us when we ask them for the reason they're looking

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to make a change. Sometimes they get a little bit more expressive

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and I really don't want them to go into things that

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really are none of my business, especially from where they're coming from. I know there's

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always two sides of the story, but with our clients per se, I think

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we know them pretty well. But I don't know. We know all the workings within

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their facility, but we really pick and choose our clients also and

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we really get to know them pretty well. And I don't think that there

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are any issues that we need to know about that we don't hear about them,

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but we really just generally are not a part of that. Okay, well, first of

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all, you know what they say there's actually three sides to every story right

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there's my side, your side, and the truth.

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This may be valuable as well. So you

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have an employee that approaches you.

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How does a potential employee need to reach out to a

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recruiter? Are you online somewhere? Let's say I'm an

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administrator, I'm in Massachusetts and I'm looking out for another position.

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How would I know to reach out to you or any recruiter?

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Well, I'm sure every recruiting office has their own ways to promote themselves.

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Okay? We've been doing it for so long that our name is out

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there, but for many people they're not aware of us. We have a LinkedIn

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profile. We really do a lot of postings or we

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do advertising and we just do word of mouth. We get

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many candidates calling us because they've heard about it from other

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people that we place to work with. The same goes with nursing homeowners.

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We get a lot of referrals from owners that have told them to contact

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us. We are doing pretty well in that regard.

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Excellent. You have marketing light, so to speak, the proactive

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marketing. And then the word of mouth goes even further, apparently.

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So do you have employees that come to you

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and they ask you or they share information that they shouldn't

15:07.392 --> 15:11.397
share? I think it's going down that road. Before I was fired for killing

15:11.442 --> 15:14.902
a resident, do you have a position for me? Maybe not

15:14.920 --> 15:18.547
something as drastic, not that quite that

15:18.580 --> 15:22.582
drastic. We've had a couple, but there are times you have

15:22.585 --> 15:26.682
to be sensitive. People might have done things early in their life that they regretted

15:26.697 --> 15:29.797
and they've overcome. And they really are good candidates. And we really

15:29.830 --> 15:33.922
try to look through everything to make sure that if they really are qualified and

15:33.955 --> 15:37.797
they're a good candidate and they've done their repentance

15:37.842 --> 15:40.977
or whatever it would be called, they might be very viable candidates.

15:41.007 --> 15:44.632
We really try to look at the total person, try to get references within

15:44.710 --> 15:48.412
those cases. And if somebody is really, truly bad, we obviously

15:48.475 --> 15:50.075
will not work with them. Right,

15:56.212 --> 15:59.767
that makes sense. We've had times someone comes back with a bad

15:59.890 --> 16:03.292
background check, but it happened 25 years ago.

16:03.415 --> 16:06.950
So if you just look at it with just black and white,

16:07.987 --> 16:11.737
I'm sorry, we can't accept you. But if you do

16:11.800 --> 16:15.362
a little more digging, sometimes it can be amazing. And unfortunately,

16:15.862 --> 16:19.402
or maybe fortunately, that cannot be erased or

16:19.420 --> 16:22.462
cannot be erased yet. And you still need to know that whatever had happened,

16:22.525 --> 16:26.537
occurred. But at the same time, it's not always automatic.

16:27.487 --> 16:30.697
It's a dangerous path to go down, but it is

16:30.730 --> 16:34.077
true nonetheless. But it's also important for these types

16:34.107 --> 16:38.512
of situations and that's what we all can be upfront until everything

16:38.650 --> 16:42.427
while it's right to be told it's not good when you're doing a job offer

16:42.520 --> 16:45.322
to start bringing out things that we should have known in the beginning. So we

16:45.355 --> 16:48.697
also people really try to trust us and be honest with us. I really

16:48.730 --> 16:52.152
try to build up a relationship with candidates and not just being a detective.

16:52.182 --> 16:55.417
It's really getting to know them on the phone and spending time with them because

16:55.465 --> 16:59.347
I don't want to know anything at the end of the process that

16:59.380 --> 17:02.557
really would impede their being hired. We really need to be a

17:02.560 --> 17:05.922
friend. And that's one of the things that I realized when I talk to potential

17:06.117 --> 17:09.742
and do they respond in contact? Do they actually share

17:09.790 --> 17:12.662
exactly what's going on? Do you find it so hesitant?

17:13.162 --> 17:16.087
Well, I'll tell you when you've been recruiting for a long time,

17:16.225 --> 17:19.552
we do it only on the phone. I very rarely meet the people that we

17:19.570 --> 17:22.942
place or talk to. You really get to listen to them. You listen to

17:22.990 --> 17:26.272
things that would be potentially red flags. And you really have to be a good

17:26.305 --> 17:29.857
listener if you're a little bit of a psychologist, social worker and really

17:29.935 --> 17:33.277
work with people, understand them to listen to what they have to say and make

17:33.295 --> 17:36.802
sure that you don't let anything go by. There would be potentially something that should

17:36.820 --> 17:40.672
have been asked. Don't avoid things because you're afraid to hear them. Better to hear

17:40.705 --> 17:44.122
them and make decisions based on the truth and don't avoid it.

17:44.305 --> 17:47.527
Wow, so that's so interesting.

17:47.695 --> 17:51.172
That is fascinating. I didn't know

17:51.205 --> 17:54.582
that. So you're saying you're recruiting people, you're filling positions.

17:54.672 --> 17:58.522
These are high level positions where the match between the

17:58.555 --> 18:02.202
employee and the employer in the organization and the background, the culture,

18:02.307 --> 18:05.797
all these factors are it's so complex and so

18:05.830 --> 18:09.342
important that you get it just right and your firm has the ability

18:09.402 --> 18:13.327
to do that just over the phone. Is that common practice? Do all recruiters do

18:13.345 --> 18:17.002
that or is that something unique to your firm? Well, there's two

18:17.020 --> 18:20.902
types of recruitment. Once a retainer and one is a contingency retainer. Firms are

18:20.920 --> 18:24.337
paid in advance to bring people in and spend a lot of time with them

18:24.400 --> 18:28.767
and qualify them by being paid in advance. The contingency

18:28.827 --> 18:32.422
search firms, of which we are really we don't get paid until

18:32.530 --> 18:35.952
after our person's hired and he's been there through the probationary period

18:35.982 --> 18:39.487
of time. It's next impossible to eliminate everybody because,

18:39.625 --> 18:42.622
I mean, we talk to so many people in the course of the day.

18:42.730 --> 18:46.672
So it's really important that we have the experience and know how to

18:46.705 --> 18:50.150
really qualify someone over the phone. It does take a lot more experience.

18:50.737 --> 18:53.992
I see. But other recruiters that work,

18:54.040 --> 18:57.927
let's say on a contingency basis like you do, do they also work exclusively

18:57.957 --> 19:01.100
over the phone? Either way is fine. I just didn't realize that

19:01.612 --> 19:04.852
I would think that most contingency search firms are similar to

19:04.870 --> 19:07.492
us, that they would be on the phone. I mean, there are times we'll meet

19:07.540 --> 19:10.627
somebody if we really feel that it's necessary or we're able to

19:10.645 --> 19:14.017
do it. But you talk to people from all over and also when people

19:14.065 --> 19:17.077
come in and meet with you in person, it does take up a lot of

19:17.095 --> 19:20.467
time. And for all the potential candidates that you talk to for any given

19:20.515 --> 19:23.572
position, there would never be enough time in the day to do. Got it.

19:23.605 --> 19:26.452
Do you ever have these types of conversations like we're having right now with a

19:26.470 --> 19:30.102
video conference? Well, this is my first video conference,

19:30.132 --> 19:33.082
so I can't say that I don't feel nervous a little bit, so I know

19:33.085 --> 19:37.447
what it's like to feel like a candidate now. Interesting so

19:37.480 --> 19:40.637
it's definitely not done in this format.

19:41.137 --> 19:44.902
I just find that fascinating. It is

19:44.920 --> 19:48.822
a trend though in the future and we are really getting more into the likelihood

19:48.867 --> 19:52.477
of starting, doing more Skyping and FaceTime with candidates over to the

19:52.495 --> 19:55.822
computer. It's not as time consuming because when you're done, you're done and

19:55.855 --> 19:59.452
sometimes it would be more helpful. So that's definitely a trend that

19:59.470 --> 20:01.897
we look definitely towards doing.

20:02.005 --> 20:05.707
Okay, that makes sense. That might

20:05.860 --> 20:09.397
make my next point a mood point. But this is

20:09.430 --> 20:12.997
a podcast which is by definition podcast is an

20:13.030 --> 20:16.550
audio experience. We are recording the video as well.

20:17.137 --> 20:20.677
But having said that, as much

20:20.695 --> 20:23.842
as we're advancing and audio is like

20:23.890 --> 20:27.552
from the radio age but the podcast

20:27.582 --> 20:31.522
industry has already exploded from something that was

20:31.555 --> 20:34.972
like an app on the iPhone back in 2007,

20:35.005 --> 20:39.067
2008 when it was just starting. And people

20:39.115 --> 20:43.162
are really connecting and people building a multimillion dollar business

20:43.225 --> 20:47.292
just off of their podcasts and the services that they offer related

20:47.352 --> 20:51.352
to it. And because people are consuming audio and

20:51.445 --> 20:54.847
really changing based on what

20:54.880 --> 20:58.550
they listen to and how they engage. My point is

20:59.287 --> 21:03.217
working on the phone is really age old,

21:03.265 --> 21:06.817
time tested thing and as much as technology has

21:06.865 --> 21:10.357
advanced, a conversation, a two way conversation, like you said,

21:10.435 --> 21:14.422
with listing of both sides, can really go very far

21:14.455 --> 21:17.525
away, very long way. Now,

21:18.337 --> 21:22.002
is there any piece of advice that you wish you would have gotten?

21:22.182 --> 21:26.007
You've come quite a long way. You've created this company in this firm,

21:26.097 --> 21:29.362
you've worked with these clients for quite a few years

21:29.500 --> 21:33.217
and you have a name in the industry and you

21:33.265 --> 21:36.922
sort of like you described earlier, became like a go to resource for those

21:36.955 --> 21:40.567
looking to fill these positions in the nursing home industry. Is there any

21:40.615 --> 21:44.097
piece of information that you wish you would have been told earlier

21:44.142 --> 21:47.450
that could have accelerated the growth of your business?

21:48.112 --> 21:50.600
Have you been told us as you were starting out?

21:52.537 --> 21:56.737
Well, I guess if I was going back to that thought,

21:56.875 --> 22:00.247
people were always guiding me and telling me how to do this

22:00.280 --> 22:03.262
and how to do that. I think that you have to have a good person

22:03.325 --> 22:07.167
to mentor you and to train you and you have to use your own creativity

22:07.227 --> 22:10.882
and your own resources. I guess

22:10.960 --> 22:14.607
if somebody would have told me be somewhat independent, avoid relatives

22:14.622 --> 22:18.052
and friends that want to help you and don't be a social worker when you

22:18.070 --> 22:21.297
work with candidates, be a recruiter because time is of the essence.

22:21.342 --> 22:24.822
The only thing that you have to be successful with as a recruiter

22:24.942 --> 22:28.747
and to work in the search industry is to really watch your time and

22:28.780 --> 22:32.452
don't go off a wild goose chase. I wasn't told that,

22:32.470 --> 22:35.452
but if someone would have told me that, I would have appreciated it. So in

22:35.470 --> 22:39.127
other words, I guess what you're describing is a

22:39.145 --> 22:42.772
couple of things. First of all, don't listen to everybody else's advice and

22:42.805 --> 22:46.872
just apply it because you need to apply your own personality

22:47.067 --> 22:50.982
in order for you to ultimately be successful. No one else's advice works perfectly

22:51.072 --> 22:53.300
for anyone else because we're all different.

22:54.037 --> 22:57.972
But you're saying in addition to that, it sounds like that. Maybe in the earlier

22:58.017 --> 23:01.872
days there was lots of conversation that wasn't

23:01.917 --> 23:05.962
focused on results. Perhaps. And you've learnt how to direct

23:06.025 --> 23:09.877
the conversation in a way that solidifies. The relationship and

23:09.895 --> 23:13.057
gives you the answer to the questions that you need to know if

23:13.060 --> 23:15.772
this is the right fit for a particular clients or to know, I guess,

23:15.805 --> 23:19.297
which bucket to put the prospect in. Is that pretty

23:19.330 --> 23:23.272
much sounds right? Yes, I would say so. I guess

23:23.380 --> 23:27.127
you just have to know what searches you should

23:27.145 --> 23:30.702
do. There's like a circle of searches

23:30.732 --> 23:33.982
that you do that are very common. It's not always good to be exotic and

23:34.060 --> 23:37.257
go into searches that you can't use the end results for and that's

23:37.272 --> 23:40.452
why it's good to be staying focused within an industry that you're

23:40.482 --> 23:43.942
very familiar with. And when you do searches, there might be

23:43.990 --> 23:47.377
potential for the candidates you found that were not for that search but might

23:47.395 --> 23:51.567
be appropriate for future searches. So it's good to stay focused and to stay specialized

23:51.627 --> 23:54.500
within the industry. Got it. Now,

23:55.312 --> 23:59.017
if you're talking to someone else who's starting out their business

23:59.065 --> 24:02.482
and they're in the early stages, even if it's not a recruitment business, but more

24:02.560 --> 24:04.700
on a general business level,

24:05.812 --> 24:09.577
is that the piece of information that you would want to share with them as

24:09.595 --> 24:13.422
well? Or is there something else that comes to mind from your earlier

24:13.467 --> 24:16.882
days? I would say

24:16.960 --> 24:20.707
really, because I've been in the recruiting for so many years, if somebody was

24:20.710 --> 24:23.902
going to start off, at least in this industry, I would tell them to make

24:23.920 --> 24:27.127
sure that there was a reputable company and they have a person there that can

24:27.145 --> 24:30.547
really mentor them well and so on. They would really help them to grow whether

24:30.580 --> 24:33.772
it would be a future within the company. I'm very fortunate in my

24:33.805 --> 24:37.237
company. The people that work in this company

24:37.300 --> 24:40.897
are very hard working, they're very dedicated, they're very loyal, they think

24:40.930 --> 24:43.642
out of the box and I'm very fortunate to have been able to have found

24:43.690 --> 24:46.775
these people to be a part of our office. Okay,

24:47.287 --> 24:50.762
again, we don't have everyone else on your office on the podcast

24:51.112 --> 24:54.802
to counter, but every good organization needs to have

24:54.820 --> 24:59.022
someone on the top to make everyone has their creativity,

24:59.217 --> 25:02.917
but a good leader knows how to allow them to shine and

25:03.040 --> 25:05.677
not tell them what to do. So what you said before, they wish someone would

25:05.695 --> 25:09.217
have told you don't use any off the shelf advice and just

25:09.340 --> 25:12.847
let that be your business model because it

25:12.880 --> 25:16.632
just doesn't work that way. You need to apply your own unique skills

25:16.647 --> 25:20.272
and backgrounds and experiences in order

25:20.305 --> 25:24.052
to be successful. Now there's a lot of different parts that we're going to try

25:24.070 --> 25:26.842
to wrap up here a little bit, but there's a lot of different parts to

25:26.890 --> 25:30.862
what you do. And is there any one particular

25:31.000 --> 25:34.707
part of the business that really lights

25:34.722 --> 25:38.152
you up and gets you excited? And that's the part that you do

25:38.170 --> 25:41.227
for free. The clock just takes by and you

25:41.245 --> 25:44.977
don't even realize that you're doing it. And that makes you feel

25:45.145 --> 25:48.502
almost cheating of how enjoyable it is.

25:48.670 --> 25:52.312
Is there any particular one aspect of the business that kind of gives you

25:52.375 --> 25:55.927
that high? It doesn't have to be, well, I'll tell

25:55.945 --> 25:59.047
you, it's really amazing that I really like

25:59.080 --> 26:02.922
making places. Some people say, of course, because you're making money. But I haven't lost

26:02.967 --> 26:06.322
the thrill of wishing people congratulations. I have this

26:06.355 --> 26:10.147
thing that we make toast with all the candidates that I placed after we

26:10.180 --> 26:13.102
place them. We meet and we talk and we kind of rehash and we go

26:13.120 --> 26:16.807
through everything. I get really excited when I find a position for somebody,

26:16.885 --> 26:20.602
especially with a person that really wasn't able to find something on their own and

26:20.620 --> 26:24.477
for a cut and for a client that really was not having success filling

26:24.582 --> 26:28.192
this position their own. I really, really enjoy helping people

26:28.240 --> 26:31.297
out. I guess maybe that's one reason that I've been so happy doing this,

26:31.330 --> 26:34.642
because as much stress as there is in helping people

26:34.690 --> 26:38.362
on that finding, the feeling has never left me

26:38.500 --> 26:41.932
as far as placing stuff and seeing everyone being really happy. It means a

26:41.935 --> 26:45.187
lot. Awesome. I mean, everybody needs that.

26:45.325 --> 26:48.702
And it pains me when I hear this goes back to my other podcast.

26:48.732 --> 26:51.997
I love your Ninetofive show where it pains me to hear when people

26:52.030 --> 26:55.327
are stuck in a business sometimes that they created themselves,

26:55.420 --> 26:58.657
that they really don't enjoy it. And ultimately those are the

26:58.660 --> 27:01.857
people that many times are not successful. Because if you're

27:01.872 --> 27:05.227
not loving what you're doing, not it's going to work. And I'm glad that

27:05.245 --> 27:08.647
you still get that high, so to speak. Not so to speak.

27:08.680 --> 27:11.562
You do get that high. We actually make that placement.

27:11.637 --> 27:15.552
Oh, thank you very much, Alvin, for coming on the nursing home podcast.

27:15.657 --> 27:19.612
Really appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule for to record

27:19.675 --> 27:23.227
this episode together. If there's any one piece of

27:23.245 --> 27:25.957
parting advice, I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit.

27:26.110 --> 27:29.675
There's any one piece of parting advice that you would give to

27:30.037 --> 27:33.697
a facility or a potential candidate that would

27:33.730 --> 27:36.952
increase their chances of either for the

27:36.970 --> 27:40.357
facility finding the right candidate or for the candidate finding the

27:40.360 --> 27:43.657
right facility. Is there any one piece of advice that

27:43.660 --> 27:47.300
you would give them? Well,

27:47.662 --> 27:50.872
that's kind of kind of like a loaded question to answer. I guess the most

27:50.905 --> 27:54.322
important thing is the person really has to know what they want and they really

27:54.355 --> 27:58.597
have to know where they're going to and people. Should do their research for

27:58.630 --> 28:01.927
the facility that they're applying to, and if they really felt that this is a

28:02.020 --> 28:05.377
position that they would like to go for, they should really do research on the

28:05.470 --> 28:08.902
facility to make sure it's right. But in the facility should also do their

28:08.920 --> 28:12.502
checking at the appropriate time after they interview the

28:12.520 --> 28:16.347
person, not before. We don't want to get anybody's job potentially jeopardized

28:16.392 --> 28:19.477
by someone hearing about it, but everyone should do their checking and they should do

28:19.495 --> 28:23.092
the research and really take it seriously. Okay,

28:23.215 --> 28:26.827
that definitely makes sense. Okay, perfect. Thank you

28:26.845 --> 28:29.662
so much, Alvin, for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

28:29.800 --> 28:33.322
And where is the best place if people want to learn

28:33.355 --> 28:36.952
more about you or your services? Is there anyone placed what's your

28:36.970 --> 28:41.692
website and where can we send them? So Alphencon.com

28:41.740 --> 28:45.082
is our website and we have a presence in LinkedIn. The name of

28:45.085 --> 28:47.462
the company is called Alfoncontin Associate.

28:48.862 --> 28:52.222
They can kind of associate. Okay, excellent. Thank you so, so much

28:52.255 --> 28:55.447
for your time. I really appreciate it and I can't wait for it to share

28:55.480 --> 28:58.972
this with our listeners who shared quite a perspective on the

28:59.005 --> 29:02.497
industry which many people may not even

29:02.680 --> 29:06.427
realize. That unique perspective. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

29:06.445 --> 29:09.212
I really appreciate it. It was definitely enlightenment.

29:19.312 --> 29:23.622
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Nursing Home Podcast.

29:23.817 --> 29:27.127
Be sure to head on over to itunes and check out

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