Welcome to our new website!
June 25, 2019

America's Legal Coach with Scott Reib

In this episode, we learn Scott's innovative approach to providing small business owners with real-time access to legal advice without the anxiety of incurring outrageous costs.


Scott Reib is known as America’s Legal Coach. He’s the official Zig Ziglar Small Business Lawyer, a Ziglar Legacy Certified Trainer, and he has over 20 years of experience as an attorney.

For the last two decades, Scott has been helping business owners, entrepreneurs, coaches, and service providers to “shatterproof” their businesses and succeed in the
professional world.

Scott is a firm believer that seeking legal advice doesn’t have to be intimidating or expensive if we treat lawyers like primary care doctors instead of ER doctors.

Through his subscription-based Access Plan legal service, Scott is making great strides in shifting that perspective.

In the past, clients were scared to call Scott or any attorney because they were nervous about the cost of the conversation.

This led them to let things go on fire before they called out for help.

With the Access Plan, clients pay a flat rate per month. This ensures that they are both on the same team, and they can call him as necessary before things become serious issues.

Book Your Free 15 Consultation with Scott Today!

Reach out to Scott

ScottReib.com

ReibLaw.com

scottr@reiblaw.com
Linkedin
Twitter
Phone - 940-691-7009

_________________________________

Sponsor an episode of The Nursing Home Podcast for super targeted exposure to senior care decision-makers! 

Tell me more!

Transcript

00:00.387 --> 00:04.027
In all fairness, this episode was actually recorded for the

00:04.045 --> 00:07.572
Levy Nine to Five show. But there's so much overlap. We are scared

00:07.617 --> 00:11.227
of nursing home operators to call our legal advisors because we

00:11.245 --> 00:15.187
are concerned about the fees that will be incurred. And sometimes we let things

00:15.250 --> 00:18.642
fester until we need the emergency room, the legal

00:18.702 --> 00:22.452
emergency room. Listen to this episode where I interviewed

00:22.482 --> 00:26.047
Scott Reeb, America's legal coach, where he describes his new

00:26.080 --> 00:30.287
practice and his new method, which is based on a subscription,

00:30.637 --> 00:34.372
which makes it that the attorney and the client are sitting both on

00:34.405 --> 00:36.587
the same side of the table.

00:40.237 --> 00:43.852
I can work from anywhere in the world and my clients would not have

00:43.870 --> 00:47.112
a clue where I am and I could be just as productive.

00:47.262 --> 00:49.927
So it's a very good lifestyle business,

00:50.095 --> 00:53.512
and you're having really huge effects because small business,

00:53.575 --> 00:57.322
it's the engine of the economy and you're helping all of them

00:57.430 --> 01:00.547
make better decisions and grow their businesses. In a way,

01:00.580 --> 01:03.532
I like to say that they're going profits that will last because they're not going

01:03.535 --> 01:06.362
to be taken away from them by predator predators.

01:14.362 --> 01:17.662
You will begin to love your Nine to Five with this show.

01:17.800 --> 01:21.172
Join us as we explore and discover your unique strengths and

01:21.205 --> 01:24.897
learn to apply them to your daily business activities with your host,

01:25.017 --> 01:26.687
Schwalzeptimist.

01:31.687 --> 01:35.137
Welcome to this episode of the Love Your Nine to Five

01:35.200 --> 01:38.682
show. Thank you again for joining us on this episode.

01:38.847 --> 01:41.772
My guest today is Scott Reid.

01:41.892 --> 01:44.592
Scott is America's legal coach.

01:44.727 --> 01:48.252
And Scott, like I mentioned to you before we started, I honestly

01:48.282 --> 01:51.337
did not have enough chance, enough time to prepare for this.

01:51.400 --> 01:54.725
So why don't you just tell us? Let's jump right into this.

01:55.162 --> 01:58.732
No, I usually like to start off and as my listeners and

01:58.810 --> 02:02.122
myself, we don't know who you are yet, do you mind telling us a little

02:02.155 --> 02:05.527
bit the short version of your life so far and

02:05.545 --> 02:09.252
as a whole lottery personally and how it led you to becoming America's

02:09.282 --> 02:13.017
legal coach? Sure. Thanks very much for having me on and it's a real pleasure.

02:13.152 --> 02:16.507
My life started in the Philippines. I was born there when my dad was in

02:16.510 --> 02:20.047
the Navy. They quickly got me back to the States and I grew up in

02:20.080 --> 02:23.347
Oklahoma in the Tulsa area all the way through high school,

02:23.455 --> 02:26.682
went to college in Missouri at Southwest Baptist University,

02:26.772 --> 02:30.312
Goberg at, got my business degree in marketing administration

02:30.387 --> 02:33.942
from there. Then when the sales for a major telecom

02:34.002 --> 02:37.552
carrier in 91 when I got out and the

02:37.570 --> 02:40.822
economy was pretty bad at that point in time and

02:40.930 --> 02:44.727
I wanted to do marketing and advertising with my passion, those jobs

02:44.757 --> 02:48.487
didn't exist, so it was sales. And so I ended up selling phone

02:48.625 --> 02:52.117
systems and phone system add ons and those kinds of things

02:52.240 --> 02:56.302
as an independent agent. So I had my own business at 23

02:56.470 --> 03:00.307
selling these phone things and discovered in the system of

03:00.310 --> 03:03.622
this telecom carrier that I could print out a report of all

03:03.655 --> 03:06.682
of the expiring warranties. If you buy a

03:06.685 --> 03:09.832
big phone system, at least back then, you buy these extended warranties. Usually there are

03:09.835 --> 03:12.927
four years I could figure out when they were expiring. I could print

03:12.957 --> 03:16.197
out a report, and then it would print out new proposals for them to renew

03:16.242 --> 03:20.092
those. I then started mailing those out to those companies that over

03:20.140 --> 03:23.962
half of them came back in, signed, and they renewed. And then I started

03:24.025 --> 03:27.742
following up by phone. Another 25% would come in, and over

03:27.790 --> 03:31.297
time, it would trickle in. I ended up about 80% of all the renewals were

03:31.330 --> 03:35.087
coming in, and they were paying me on the annualized premium,

03:35.437 --> 03:38.602
20% of the annualized premium. So now it doesn't make

03:38.620 --> 03:42.202
a lot of money, but then it seemed like a lot of money, and I

03:42.220 --> 03:45.622
was making it from my dining room table. We got a new manager at that

03:45.655 --> 03:49.402
division. They loved what I was doing, but decided that

03:49.420 --> 03:52.852
they could pay someone minimum wage to do it. Took it away from

03:52.870 --> 03:55.977
me, took me out of my territory in Tulsa, the metropolitan

03:56.007 --> 03:59.697
area in southeast Oklahoma, which is almost Arkansas,

03:59.817 --> 04:03.202
in an area that I don't think they had phones. I mean, they may have

04:03.220 --> 04:06.277
seen a phone, but they didn't have phones to go say,

04:06.295 --> 04:10.177
hey, you should add a voicemail system to your phone, or it was not going

04:10.195 --> 04:13.362
to work. They breached my agreement, and I decided

04:13.437 --> 04:17.152
then I wasn't going to be taken advantage of again. And so I decided to

04:17.170 --> 04:20.052
apply to law school, went to the University of Oklahoma, followed.

04:20.082 --> 04:23.442
93 years later, I graduate. I'm now a lawyer.

04:23.502 --> 04:27.052
Moved to Texas, take the State of Texas bar exam, a three day exam,

04:27.145 --> 04:30.622
passed it my first time and started doing litigation, which I thought

04:30.655 --> 04:33.972
would be really fun. And so I'm doing corporate litigation in Sherman,

04:34.017 --> 04:37.557
Texas, in the federal courts, talking to engineers

04:37.722 --> 04:41.742
about all these digital things. It was so boring.

04:41.802 --> 04:45.082
I wasn't helping anybody. I mean, I guess somewhere down the line I was,

04:45.160 --> 04:48.672
but I didn't feel like I was, and so I was pretty disillusioned.

04:48.717 --> 04:52.632
It was not what I expected. So I started working with small business owners

04:52.722 --> 04:55.527
a few years later. That was much more fulfilling,

04:55.632 --> 04:59.422
doing smaller litigation where I was really dealing with people, and that

04:59.455 --> 05:02.797
morphed into eventually that I had a

05:02.830 --> 05:06.502
business problem. I had my own law firm. I had business clients that were

05:06.520 --> 05:10.417
using me for litigation, but they weren't coming to see me until their

05:10.465 --> 05:14.347
house was on fire. And then Scott, put this out. Whatever you have to do,

05:14.380 --> 05:17.862
make this go away. Make it go away. But it'd be super expensive

05:17.937 --> 05:21.127
to do that because of how they messed up. And then at the

05:21.145 --> 05:24.427
end, even when we won, they weren't very happy with us because it costs so

05:24.445 --> 05:28.327
much money. So then they wouldn't call us again. They'd make another mistake. I guess

05:28.420 --> 05:31.537
they had a legal question. They would flip a coin, ask Google

05:31.600 --> 05:34.942
or Alexa and make a decision and just hope for the best. Well,

05:34.990 --> 05:39.097
that almost never worked out. And so then they're back in trouble and

05:39.205 --> 05:42.772
I decided I had to solve that problem because it was bad for them and

05:42.805 --> 05:46.752
it was a bad business model for me. So I hired my first business coach

05:46.857 --> 05:50.977
in 2012 and we developed what I call the Access

05:51.070 --> 05:54.742
Legal Coaching Plan, where I started helping small business

05:54.790 --> 05:57.907
owners as a team member to avoid these problems,

05:57.985 --> 06:01.747
become proactive, basically make a paradigm shift of law

06:01.780 --> 06:04.852
firms are not emergency rooms, they're primary care.

06:04.945 --> 06:08.407
Come to us so that you can stay legally fit. Instead,

06:08.560 --> 06:11.932
very quickly, some of our existing clients converted to that model where

06:11.935 --> 06:15.277
they would pay me a monthly fee for a bundle of services, which solved a

06:15.295 --> 06:18.432
great problem for me because now I had consistent cash flow.

06:18.522 --> 06:21.937
Problem for them is that they're now on the same page as their lawyer and

06:22.000 --> 06:25.417
lights talking to their lawyer because they have to worry about getting billed for every

06:25.465 --> 06:29.097
second. And suddenly we had a whole new business segment

06:29.217 --> 06:33.012
that has now taken over the firm and where litigation

06:33.087 --> 06:37.162
was 90% of what we do now it's 10%. And I

06:37.225 --> 06:40.857
spend most of my time coaching small businesses on the legal aspects

06:40.947 --> 06:44.547
of their business and then training other people here at the firm

06:44.592 --> 06:48.282
to do that also. And then we also do business coaching, marketing,

06:48.372 --> 06:52.152
sales, all that stuff too. And along the way ran into the Ziggler

06:52.182 --> 06:55.642
family and became the official small business lawyer for

06:55.690 --> 06:59.442
Zig Ziggler's Company and picked up to moniker America's

06:59.502 --> 07:03.217
Legal Coach. Wow. I've been doing this podcasting now

07:03.265 --> 07:06.682
for probably a little over two years. I don't think I've ever

07:06.760 --> 07:10.542
received such a full conclusive response,

07:10.677 --> 07:14.202
comprehensive response to the question of introduce yourself personally

07:14.232 --> 07:17.667
and professionally. You literally took yourself from the beginning

07:17.802 --> 07:20.977
down to the very end. And I found so many aspects of what

07:20.995 --> 07:24.547
you just said extremely fascinating. And as I mentioned before

07:24.655 --> 07:28.177
the show, it's ironic that I literally just got

07:28.195 --> 07:32.127
off a podcast with a different company that doesn't do the same thing, but it's

07:32.157 --> 07:35.377
the same concept. Right? And I'll tell you again, I guess this is

07:35.395 --> 07:38.892
going to be confusing now that I have two podcasts where they're going to overlap.

07:39.027 --> 07:42.457
I guess that's because I'm a person and both parts are important to me.

07:42.535 --> 07:45.997
So from the nursing home podcast, we were just

07:46.030 --> 07:50.347
discussing specific to the world of nursing homes, but this is so true in

07:50.380 --> 07:54.142
any industry that the business person is

07:54.190 --> 07:57.637
petrified of the legal person because of what you mentioned.

07:57.775 --> 08:01.027
Every time I have friends who are lawyers and if I

08:01.045 --> 08:04.147
ask them anything, even in a social setting, I'm like, I got to keep this

08:04.180 --> 08:07.227
under seven minutes. I don't want to be on the clock. Right. It can ruin

08:07.257 --> 08:10.822
our relationship. And maybe I would hire somebody else.

08:10.930 --> 08:14.452
But the point is that because of that we don't go and

08:14.470 --> 08:18.172
we don't seek out legal advice until like you said, it's the emergency room.

08:18.205 --> 08:21.652
That's such a great way of explaining it. When we have a serious lawsuit on

08:21.670 --> 08:25.027
our hand tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars

08:25.195 --> 08:28.522
and our entire business, our entire career is on the line.

08:28.630 --> 08:32.037
Extremely stressful situation which can drag out forever

08:32.187 --> 08:35.167
and cost ridiculous amount of money in which, at the end of the day,

08:35.215 --> 08:38.752
even when you win for us, we feel like you lost for us because we

08:38.770 --> 08:42.517
lost all that money. Even though, as you correctly pointed out,

08:42.565 --> 08:46.212
the reason why it escalated so far is because we didn't

08:46.287 --> 08:50.002
confront our anxiety and fear of the

08:50.020 --> 08:53.532
legal system and those who practice

08:53.622 --> 08:56.892
law. And as a result, we kind of dug our own grave.

08:56.952 --> 09:00.277
We made our own bed or whatever euphemism you want to use right now,

09:00.295 --> 09:02.707
we have to deal with it. And the way we deal with it, if you

09:02.710 --> 09:06.697
come into an emergency room and someone's body is torso severed in half,

09:06.805 --> 09:09.922
it might be a little bit of a complicated procedure to put that person back

09:09.955 --> 09:13.092
together. And they may not be on the golf course, on the basketball

09:13.152 --> 09:17.002
court the next morning, and they'll pay a whole lot of money to get

09:17.020 --> 09:21.147
that result. Exactly. But I think that it's nothing short of genius

09:21.192 --> 09:24.417
by putting it on a subscription

09:24.477 --> 09:27.267
basis, which a it's defined.

09:27.402 --> 09:31.252
This is the number and I assume I'm speaking now

09:31.270 --> 09:34.752
as a small business owner myself, I assume people are not abusing

09:34.782 --> 09:38.077
the system to the point where it wouldn't be profitable. I'm sure you

09:38.095 --> 09:41.842
priced correctly and just a piece of mind

09:41.890 --> 09:45.552
and knowing, oh, this is a legal question, let me call Scott and he's

09:45.582 --> 09:49.057
going to tell me or maybe there's someone in your team that would help and

09:49.135 --> 09:52.752
you're going to tell me what I need to do so that I'm not concerned.

09:52.857 --> 09:56.797
And it's really a phenomenal idea. I'll tell you myself. When I started out

09:56.830 --> 09:59.947
my short version, I've been a nursing home administrator now for the last five or

09:59.980 --> 10:03.787
six years. I've recently put that on hold and started a

10:03.925 --> 10:07.857
marketing and online reputation management company for nursing homes and assisted

10:07.872 --> 10:10.752
living facilities. Which kind of makes sense. I've always liked marketing.

10:10.782 --> 10:14.722
I love communication is what I love doing. This right now is communicating with people

10:14.755 --> 10:18.307
that I've never met before and really try to dig in and

10:18.385 --> 10:22.177
see what pearls of wisdom we can pull out, which is not

10:22.195 --> 10:26.107
difficult at all to share with the listeners. So when I

10:26.110 --> 10:29.622
was starting off, the last thing I wanted to deal with was LLCs

10:29.667 --> 10:33.102
and legal filings and legal agents and all these other insurances

10:33.132 --> 10:36.292
and all this put it at the ground running and I wanted all this stuff

10:36.340 --> 10:39.922
to go away, right. And I should never have to deal with it but

10:39.955 --> 10:43.942
at the same time, when you start looking at phone numbers for people and

10:43.990 --> 10:47.572
the hourly fees and all this, I can't do that. And that's kind of

10:47.680 --> 10:51.517
where companies like Legal Zoom build their teams. But their

10:51.565 --> 10:55.677
disadvantages, they tell you over and over, you're not talking to an attorney,

10:55.857 --> 10:59.182
we can't get off your legal advice. And they may have some other services that

10:59.260 --> 11:02.227
you can buy up for it, but then you feel like you're getting lost in

11:02.245 --> 11:06.127
this monstrosity and you're not really so convinced that

11:06.145 --> 11:09.577
you're getting the quality of the advice that you need, especially when

11:09.595 --> 11:13.662
you're building a business around it. So if I'm understanding your business correctly,

11:13.812 --> 11:17.352
and I'll shut up and let you talk in a second, but if I'm standing

11:17.382 --> 11:20.752
correctly, is that you're getting a regular real person

11:20.845 --> 11:24.832
attorney who's going to be providing you advice or perhaps as a

11:24.835 --> 11:28.552
team and you could develop that relationship and someone who actually knows your

11:28.570 --> 11:31.777
business. They're not just, oh, I'm calling for my business, I want

11:31.795 --> 11:35.227
to know what to do to avoid this case. And there's someone, you hear them

11:35.245 --> 11:39.322
clicking on their computer, trying to with some prefilled advice and

11:39.355 --> 11:43.447
that's going to give you something off the rack. So I really love exactly

11:43.555 --> 11:47.937
what you've created. Am I understanding the business experience correctly

11:48.012 --> 11:51.307
for what the company does? Yeah, that was a pretty good explanation. And there are

11:51.310 --> 11:54.897
other lawyers and firms that try to do this, but they generally

11:54.942 --> 11:58.267
are selling blocks of time and hoping you don't use them.

11:58.315 --> 12:01.782
We're kind of different and that we really want business owners to be proactive

12:01.872 --> 12:05.142
with the legal side of their business. So we have a 20 minutes

12:05.202 --> 12:08.347
checking call with every client every month where we actually are

12:08.380 --> 12:12.397
asking them questions about what's going on so that we can try to make that

12:12.505 --> 12:15.967
focused time where they're actually thinking about the legal aspects of their business

12:16.015 --> 12:19.717
so that we can help them more. The better that we know them, the better

12:19.765 --> 12:23.287
more comfortable they are with us. That happens, then we can

12:23.350 --> 12:26.902
help them avoid those potholes. And so generally during the

12:26.920 --> 12:30.027
call we have a system we use where we're keeping track of all the discussions.

12:30.057 --> 12:33.877
So they have state notes, we're taking notes, there's a place for tasks so

12:33.895 --> 12:36.867
we can track those. And then they go into our support system with tickets.

12:36.927 --> 12:40.627
So there's a real comprehensive way to kind of track the questions at work so

12:40.645 --> 12:44.077
the clients know who has their project, who's working on it, and then

12:44.095 --> 12:47.632
they have the ability to text us, email us, or go straight to that support

12:47.710 --> 12:50.932
system so they know everyone on there, what we

12:50.935 --> 12:54.112
call their access team. So it's all about relationship

12:54.250 --> 12:58.227
for me. And so example is that as we're growing

12:58.257 --> 13:01.917
and I'm scaling this business, I don't have all the contact with every client.

13:01.977 --> 13:04.927
It just has to be that way, right? So that was my question. Is it

13:04.945 --> 13:09.042
just you who is interacting directly with the clients from a legal perspective?

13:09.102 --> 13:12.007
Do you have other attorneys or any team? How does that all work? I have

13:12.010 --> 13:15.247
a team, and so we have other lawyers that deal with the clients as well.

13:15.355 --> 13:18.997
And so I still try to do a lot of the calls, but every

13:19.030 --> 13:22.372
once in a while I'll need to be doing a podcast or maybe meeting with

13:22.405 --> 13:25.942
a new potential client, and so my associate will meet with

13:25.990 --> 13:29.332
them. And so I had a client I've had for three or four years

13:29.410 --> 13:32.707
have a good relationship with them. I come in last week and have

13:32.710 --> 13:35.202
a message. They want to talk to me, and I'm like, oh, no. They're upset

13:35.232 --> 13:38.892
because I haven't been doing their stuff personally. I get on the call, and that's

13:38.952 --> 13:41.032
going to be further from the truth. What they wanted to tell me was how

13:41.035 --> 13:44.872
much they were enjoying working with my associate. And then

13:44.905 --> 13:47.872
they wanted to just know how my kids are doing, what's going on with my

13:47.905 --> 13:50.617
family because they missed their relationship.

13:50.740 --> 13:54.597
We had no to catch up. That's the kind of thing that most lawyers

13:54.642 --> 13:58.147
can't say that their clients enjoy talking to them. And I

13:58.180 --> 14:02.152
can because there will be times where that 2030 minutes call has nothing to

14:02.170 --> 14:05.227
do with legal because that's not what's going on with them. Right. Then they have

14:05.245 --> 14:08.047
other problems or there's something they want to talk about, and that's fine.

14:08.155 --> 14:12.082
We're there to support them as a trusted advisor, whatever that might be.

14:12.160 --> 14:15.547
And so the important thing is that they have confidence in us,

14:15.580 --> 14:19.557
in the relationship, so that when they have that problem that arises,

14:19.722 --> 14:23.525
they can call us and know that they'll get what I call information

14:23.887 --> 14:27.772
at the right time. Right? The key to success in business is having

14:27.805 --> 14:31.252
the right information at the right time. Example of that would be if you

14:31.270 --> 14:34.377
drove by my house this afternoon and called me and said, hey, Scott,

14:34.407 --> 14:37.222
I'm just driving by your street and there's smoke coming out of your roof.

14:37.255 --> 14:40.657
Is everything okay? I'd say, no, please go make sure my wife's out of the

14:40.660 --> 14:43.837
house. Call the fire department. You do that. You save my house and family.

14:43.975 --> 14:47.242
Same thing happens. You drive by the house, see the smoke, and then you drive

14:47.290 --> 14:50.857
home and call me the next day and say, hey, Scott, I saw smoking out

14:50.860 --> 14:54.612
of your roof. Information is the same. It's accurate. It's just too late.

14:54.687 --> 14:58.327
And so with business moves so fast today that as

14:58.345 --> 15:01.672
an entrepreneur, you'd be able to walk out of a meeting or off of a

15:01.705 --> 15:05.422
phone call or a zoom call and pick up another communication line

15:05.455 --> 15:08.562
and say, I've got a decision to make. Here's the parameters.

15:08.637 --> 15:11.647
What do I do? And if you have to wait until tomorrow, it may be

15:11.680 --> 15:14.827
too late. And the truth is, if you don't already have a lawyer lined up,

15:14.845 --> 15:17.932
you're probably waiting till the next week before you get in there. And then they

15:17.935 --> 15:20.302
have to decide, is this a good fit for us? Before they ever give you

15:20.320 --> 15:23.847
legal advice. And you have to pay them. And usually it's a large retainer,

15:23.892 --> 15:28.122
two $3,000, in my opinion. It's a broken model from the lawyers standpoint

15:28.167 --> 15:31.642
and the client's standpoint. Most lawyers just haven't realized it yet. Okay, well,

15:31.690 --> 15:35.577
so that's fascinating. The last piece, everything was great, but specifically

15:35.607 --> 15:38.992
the last thing you just said, how are the attorneys losing out on this?

15:39.040 --> 15:42.927
Because they're missing out on the important part, which is the relationship. So they're

15:42.957 --> 15:46.332
building these really short term relationships and having this client term where they're

15:46.347 --> 15:49.822
constantly having to find new clients to build. Because if everything in your firm is

15:49.855 --> 15:53.047
built on the billable hour, then you're keeping track of, like you said,

15:53.080 --> 15:56.647
every six minutes of time so that you can then build a client because

15:56.680 --> 16:00.247
that's your revenue generation scheme. Well, the clients only put up with that

16:00.280 --> 16:03.652
so long, and then they'll go find someone else that says they can do it

16:03.670 --> 16:07.372
more efficiently, and then that ends up being wrong because no one's going

16:07.405 --> 16:10.822
to. It's just legal. Work on litigation for especially it takes

16:10.855 --> 16:13.342
a long time. And if you're billing by the hour,

16:13.465 --> 16:16.792
subconsciously, you're always going to take a little longer

16:16.915 --> 16:21.022
than it probably has to because you get paid more. Even honest people

16:21.130 --> 16:24.142
are going to have a tendency to spend more time than they might have to

16:24.190 --> 16:27.742
if they're working on a profit model. Like as a business owner. Right.

16:27.790 --> 16:30.802
Why do lawyers not have to figure out, what does it cost to make and

16:30.820 --> 16:34.327
provide my service to the public and then charge just enough to

16:34.345 --> 16:38.077
make profit margin? Instead, they just keep billing until they make

16:38.095 --> 16:42.027
a profit. I now have to come up with pricing models

16:42.057 --> 16:45.757
that really work in the real world. So I'm delivering legal services in a

16:45.760 --> 16:49.177
way that's profitable, and to me, that's a fair way to do

16:49.195 --> 16:52.842
it, going by the hour. I'm not on your team if I can determine

16:52.902 --> 16:56.197
either the rate or the time that I'm in control of that relationship.

16:56.305 --> 16:59.817
And we're not on a level playing field. So from a customer standpoint,

16:59.877 --> 17:02.772
obviously what you said is being on the same side of the table,

17:02.817 --> 17:05.862
the opposite end of the table. So I've had conversations.

17:05.937 --> 17:09.337
There's different parts of the organization where you feel like

17:09.475 --> 17:12.757
the attorney is working with you, and sometimes

17:12.910 --> 17:16.302
they're a necessary evil, and it's hard to figure out exactly whose team they're

17:16.332 --> 17:19.807
on. And because there's that anxiety in the

17:19.810 --> 17:23.377
room because of the exorbitant rates that some of the attorneys or their

17:23.470 --> 17:27.097
companies are charging, it may not be the attorney themselves. That just

17:27.130 --> 17:30.672
makes the level of the conversation may be too intense

17:30.717 --> 17:34.102
to be productive sometimes. I agree, but you said another point,

17:34.195 --> 17:37.602
and this is like, really eyeopening from an attorney's perspective.

17:37.632 --> 17:40.927
So I assume if you have a Fortune 500 company and

17:40.945 --> 17:44.467
you have someone as in house attorneys for

17:44.515 --> 17:47.947
some of these companies, and they say that for them, if it's going to cost

17:47.980 --> 17:51.937
them $75,000 to verify certain particular

17:52.000 --> 17:55.342
information about a deal, they don't care that cost is nothing. They're talking

17:55.390 --> 17:58.927
about $700 million deal. So that's barely a

17:58.945 --> 18:02.452
line item. So yes, the fees are exorbitant. They do have a ton

18:02.470 --> 18:06.052
of resources. They're a world class firm, and they've earned the

18:06.070 --> 18:09.702
right to charge what they charge. And in that type of environment

18:09.882 --> 18:13.422
that's playing on that level, it may make sense. But most attorneys can't

18:13.467 --> 18:17.007
last so long in house with those crazy hours, and if you're

18:17.022 --> 18:20.872
going to go out on your own or in a more regular firm so

18:20.905 --> 18:24.277
then in order to be profitable, I'm kind of regurgitating what

18:24.295 --> 18:27.742
you're saying, but I think it's phenomenal. I live in Boston. I have friends

18:27.790 --> 18:31.447
here in Harvard, and they come out and they're going through the same thing here.

18:31.480 --> 18:33.727
And, you know, I'm talking to them, so what are you going to do with

18:33.745 --> 18:36.712
your life? And many of them are family people,

18:36.850 --> 18:40.042
and they're in their late 20s, early thirty

18:40.090 --> 18:43.357
s, and they have kids at home. And they know that they're signing away the

18:43.360 --> 18:46.762
next 4568 years of their life to crazy hours

18:46.900 --> 18:50.152
working for these massive companies, making good money, paying back

18:50.170 --> 18:53.902
their student loans. But they know that it's not sustainable and they're not sure what

18:53.920 --> 18:57.847
the next step will be. But they know, based on statistics, that this

18:57.880 --> 19:01.027
will lead to the next step. And that usually works. But what you're saying is

19:01.045 --> 19:04.567
a completely different model is that offer people

19:04.615 --> 19:07.702
to be their in house person. That doesn't mean you can be

19:07.720 --> 19:11.157
spending 10 hours a week with each one of your clients because they don't

19:11.172 --> 19:14.227
need you every single month, every single day of every single month. They need to

19:14.245 --> 19:17.572
know that you're available and you'll pick up your phone when they need you within

19:17.605 --> 19:21.172
a reasonable amount of time and offer the information that you can give

19:21.205 --> 19:24.652
them real legal advice so that they can continue doing what they want to do.

19:24.745 --> 19:27.172
And they don't want to have to feel awkward. They don't want to think ten

19:27.205 --> 19:29.827
times. They don't want to have to push it off in the morning when they

19:29.845 --> 19:33.277
see that the business is on fire because they're scared to call you

19:33.295 --> 19:36.457
and they're hoping that the problem will go away. They can actually address it in

19:36.460 --> 19:39.052
real time and not be concerned. Oh, it's a legal issue. We reach out to

19:39.070 --> 19:42.252
Scott or his team. The model is really eye opening.

19:42.282 --> 19:44.977
Are there other companies that are doing this that you're aware of yet? There are

19:44.995 --> 19:48.502
some others. I've masterminded with other lawyers that are doing it. They're doing it

19:48.520 --> 19:52.027
a little differently than I am. A lot of lawyers are pricing the service in

19:52.045 --> 19:55.387
a way where it's say, $3,000 a month to be a part of their plan.

19:55.525 --> 19:59.002
Most entrepreneurs, that's out of their price range. Our package started as

19:59.020 --> 20:03.187
little as $11 a day. So if you're making any profit in your business,

20:03.250 --> 20:06.802
there's a way to afford our plans. And so now I'm starting to

20:06.820 --> 20:10.147
teach other lawyers how to design this part

20:10.180 --> 20:14.032
of their business. Because if something can be added onto if you're doing

20:14.110 --> 20:17.497
just estate planning or bankruptcy work, you can add what I'm doing

20:17.530 --> 20:21.117
onto your practice and create a very nice revenue stream

20:21.177 --> 20:24.292
without adding any new staff. Because most of what I do

20:24.340 --> 20:28.042
is we use technology. I could work from anywhere in the world,

20:28.165 --> 20:31.477
and my clients would not have a clue where I am and I could be

20:31.495 --> 20:35.527
just as productive. So it's a very good lifestyle business,

20:35.695 --> 20:39.082
and you're having really huge effect because small business,

20:39.160 --> 20:42.472
it's the engine of the economy, and you're helping all of

20:42.505 --> 20:46.147
them make better decisions and grow their businesses. In a way,

20:46.180 --> 20:49.132
I like to say that they're going profits that will last because they're not going

20:49.135 --> 20:52.702
to be taken away from them by predator creditors. Wow, profits that

20:52.720 --> 20:56.352
will last. That is a great way. I mean, Zigzagger would be proud

20:56.382 --> 20:59.127
of that. Not selling you legal packages,

20:59.232 --> 21:02.572
right? You're working so hard to make those profits. I'm selling your

21:02.605 --> 21:06.142
profits on the left. That's beautiful. This show is the Love Your nine to five

21:06.190 --> 21:09.757
show. The reason why we started this show is it was really a

21:09.760 --> 21:13.147
documentation of my personal journey and going from work

21:13.180 --> 21:16.927
that I despise and getting closer to work that's in

21:16.945 --> 21:20.182
tune with myself personally. And a lot of it has to

21:20.185 --> 21:23.572
do with this communication which we're doing right now, which definitely lines into

21:23.605 --> 21:27.312
the new marketing company as well. Just a way of getting the businesses

21:27.462 --> 21:31.197
message in a real way out to their potential clients

21:31.242 --> 21:34.392
in a way that resonates with them, in a way that you just said profits

21:34.452 --> 21:37.552
that will last, which is such an amazing way to do it. Now,

21:37.645 --> 21:41.427
you've been talking in this interview, in this conversation, at least the way I'm hearing

21:41.457 --> 21:45.127
it, on two different paths. On one of them is the actual business

21:45.220 --> 21:49.117
model and why it makes sense for attorneys to

21:49.240 --> 21:52.807
adopt this model or even, like you said, to add it as

21:52.885 --> 21:56.542
an additional revenue stream. But then additionally, you keep on going back

21:56.590 --> 22:00.417
and you kind of started with this. Also, you're saying there's a lack of fulfillment

22:00.477 --> 22:03.882
in the cutthroat, high level attorneys where all the books

22:03.897 --> 22:07.552
and movies are written about, where, yes, you're making a lot of money,

22:07.645 --> 22:10.752
but you really don't feel like you're helping anyone. You feel like you're back stabbing

22:10.782 --> 22:14.277
people. Many times you're trying to find the legal loopholes

22:14.307 --> 22:17.997
that allow people to do certain things. Or you don't feel that personal connection.

22:18.042 --> 22:22.077
You don't feel that there's somebody going to sleep better at night and feeling

22:22.107 --> 22:25.852
more relaxed and productive in their business or life because of

22:25.870 --> 22:29.662
what you're doing, right? So if you had to define your why,

22:29.725 --> 22:32.977
and you sound like a very thought out person. I'm sorry if I'm judging you

22:32.995 --> 22:36.552
too much in this conversation, but it's probably because I barely

22:36.582 --> 22:40.197
had time to do my due diligence here. And I apologize

22:40.242 --> 22:43.777
for that. But if you don't mind sharing with the listeners what

22:43.795 --> 22:47.437
the journey has been like for you, going from the

22:47.500 --> 22:50.692
real cut throughout litigation world to hear not

22:50.740 --> 22:54.072
from the legal and business perspective, which I think we've

22:54.117 --> 22:57.897
covered so far, but more from the personal self expression

22:57.942 --> 23:01.027
of your own unique light that you're shining to the world. Well,

23:01.045 --> 23:04.537
my blood pressure is a lot lower, my weight is better. Those things are

23:04.600 --> 23:08.600
kind of nice. And I really kind of have been able to design

23:09.112 --> 23:12.817
my practice the way around what I want to do, and I get to pick

23:12.865 --> 23:16.102
who I want to work with so I don't have to work with

23:16.120 --> 23:20.272
any business owner. I get to decide. Everything just became very

23:20.305 --> 23:24.522
quick in the first year. Things changed very rapidly, were suddenly

23:24.567 --> 23:27.877
I had this idea that I thought would work. I worked with the

23:27.895 --> 23:31.162
coach, and we built it out, and then I started selling it, and people started

23:31.225 --> 23:35.047
actually agreeing with me that it was a better way. And then it went

23:35.080 --> 23:38.727
from one to ten and then to 20, and suddenly I'm

23:38.757 --> 23:42.562
spending most of my days doing zoom calls with small

23:42.625 --> 23:46.012
business owners, talking about their business, instead of

23:46.075 --> 23:49.767
talking to lawyers who are yelling at me on the phone. Because in litigation,

23:49.827 --> 23:53.227
you aren't successful if you don't make someone mad every day.

23:53.395 --> 23:56.872
It's not literally true, but it's close. That's just kind of how

23:56.905 --> 24:00.097
litigation is. If you're not getting under someone's skin, you probably

24:00.130 --> 24:03.567
haven't done your job, and that, like you said, that really wears

24:03.627 --> 24:07.237
on you. And at the end of the day, you don't really maybe like,

24:07.300 --> 24:10.552
kind of who you become. I can remember when I was a

24:10.570 --> 24:14.422
young lawyer sitting in my office, just chewing another lawyer out on the

24:14.455 --> 24:17.722
phone. My wife, she was a school teacher. She got out of school,

24:17.755 --> 24:20.977
and for some reason, I walked into my office that afternoon while I'm on

24:20.995 --> 24:24.847
the phone, and I was really embarrassed at how

24:24.880 --> 24:28.267
I was acting, because I kind of had these two different people,

24:28.315 --> 24:31.402
right? I'm this guy is causing all this havoc at work trying to make

24:31.420 --> 24:34.417
everyone miserable, and then I'm supposed to be this really good guy at home,

24:34.540 --> 24:38.317
and you can do that for a while, but at some point, it does

24:38.365 --> 24:42.127
carry over and kind of become that all the time to some point.

24:42.220 --> 24:46.077
And now that I'm more of a legal coach, I think I'm

24:46.107 --> 24:49.477
much more calm. I think I'm nicer. Am I perfect?

24:49.570 --> 24:53.302
No. I still am a lawyer. The lawyer jokes still apply to

24:53.320 --> 24:56.902
you? They do all right. And law school kind of changes your personality a.

24:56.920 --> 25:00.712
Little bit, I think. But it's really been great. And now my way

25:00.775 --> 25:04.227
is to teach other lawyers how to build this lifestyle practice

25:04.332 --> 25:06.892
so they don't have to feel that way. Do I still want to help small

25:06.940 --> 25:10.327
business owners? Yes, I do. But I can go help people.

25:10.420 --> 25:13.497
There's a lot of lawyers out there that have multiple

25:13.542 --> 25:17.152
problems. Some of them don't know how to make money. They're just starving. People have

25:17.170 --> 25:20.422
this impression that all lawyers are making lots and lots of money. It's not

25:20.455 --> 25:23.707
true. It's really not. There's a lot of lawyers that are starving because

25:23.785 --> 25:26.652
law school doesn't teach you how to run a law practice,

25:26.682 --> 25:29.392
how to market, how to sell, and they don't know what to do.

25:29.515 --> 25:32.947
And so I'd like to go to throw them a life raft and show them

25:32.980 --> 25:35.917
how they can actually help people and make money at the same time.

25:36.040 --> 25:39.147
And then there's lawyers like you mentioned that are in this rat

25:39.192 --> 25:42.472
race of these big law firms trying to make partner and then

25:42.505 --> 25:45.502
a bunch of are going to make partner and then they're going to look back

25:45.520 --> 25:49.102
and go, now what do I do? And I've got a path for them

25:49.195 --> 25:53.157
that will lower their blood pressure, let them get more healthy

25:53.247 --> 25:56.857
and have better relationships. And you can still make a

25:56.860 --> 26:00.247
lot of money. You don't have to charge $600 an hour. That's my

26:00.280 --> 26:03.907
hourly rate and I always scare people to pay it. Why would you want to

26:03.910 --> 26:07.372
pay that? You don't have to. You can join my plan or if you really

26:07.405 --> 26:10.597
want to, I'll charge you $600 an hour. I have that much value

26:10.630 --> 26:13.777
to offer you. I just have a better way to package it so no

26:13.795 --> 26:18.222
one pays me my other rate. Wow. Now what has been the response

26:18.267 --> 26:21.892
from other attorneys? When you tell them what you're doing, do they see you're crazy,

26:21.940 --> 26:25.747
you fell in your head. And I'll tell you why I'm asking. Because the fact

26:25.780 --> 26:30.057
that you can charge $600 an hour, which is absolutely outrageous

26:30.147 --> 26:33.252
rate for any profession, there must be a lot of ego

26:33.282 --> 26:36.952
attached to that. And I am a $600 an hour person and now

26:36.970 --> 26:40.797
you want me to become like a zoom software. What you pay me a monthly

26:40.842 --> 26:44.172
fee? It kind of made feel like at least it takes away from the prestige.

26:44.217 --> 26:48.517
And I'm sure people will make a bad financial decision based

26:48.565 --> 26:51.327
on that, even if at the end of the day in their bank account they'll

26:51.357 --> 26:54.412
have less money or starving like you said.

26:54.550 --> 26:58.477
But at $600 you do $600 a week, that's not

26:58.495 --> 27:01.927
the greatest income going on there. But if you do $11 a

27:01.945 --> 27:05.752
day time 1020 3100 people, you got a business going and

27:05.770 --> 27:09.307
you'll be making more money. $600 an hour. So I guess my question is

27:09.385 --> 27:12.727
how have other attorneys have they been receptive to this? Some of the

27:12.745 --> 27:15.882
receptors, the ones that are have a little bit of entrepreneurial spirit

27:15.972 --> 27:19.647
have some understanding of business. Maybe they had a business background

27:19.692 --> 27:23.577
before. Lawyers that really are just purely litigators

27:23.607 --> 27:27.487
and that's all they've ever known. They're kind of resistant to it until

27:27.550 --> 27:31.327
they go start their own practice and walk in. Maybe they have

27:31.345 --> 27:34.447
some capital to start. They get a few months. That capital is starting

27:34.480 --> 27:38.242
to drain and now they're having to bill someone every month to COVID

27:38.290 --> 27:42.322
their not only pay their firm expenses, but to take money home and

27:42.355 --> 27:45.607
pay their mortgage and their light bill. When you don't know the first of

27:45.610 --> 27:49.002
the month where that's going to come from for about a year, it starts

27:49.032 --> 27:53.022
to wear on you. And with my method of the recurring revenue

27:53.067 --> 27:56.452
model, you don't have to worry about that anymore because

27:56.545 --> 28:00.757
I can get you very quickly to a baseline of $20,000

28:00.835 --> 28:03.742
recurring revenue a month where you know, okay,

28:03.865 --> 28:06.622
I can pay my staff, I can pay my rent and I can take money

28:06.655 --> 28:09.907
home and pay my bills. I might not make a lot of profit that month

28:09.985 --> 28:13.152
but at least I know that I can cover the baselines. And then if I've

28:13.182 --> 28:16.897
got the right marketing systems in place, the right sales systems in place and using

28:17.005 --> 28:20.797
marketing automation, I'll have a steady flow of leads that I can be converted into

28:20.830 --> 28:24.312
new clients. So it really becomes this annuity that just keeps growing.

28:24.387 --> 28:28.237
But you just have to get started. And most lawyers now

28:28.375 --> 28:31.792
are becoming more open to it. And I have to say I'm probably

28:31.840 --> 28:35.272
one of the best kept secrets because I think most lawyers in

28:35.305 --> 28:38.947
my county of 4000 plus people I don't know, there's probably

28:38.980 --> 28:42.267
30,000 lawyers. They don't know what I do. Most of them have no clue.

28:42.327 --> 28:44.902
They know they haven't seen me in the courthouse anymore and they wonder why.

28:44.995 --> 28:48.532
Well but they're not targets of my ads, right? So they're not seeing all

28:48.535 --> 28:51.937
my Facebook ads. And so they just kind of wonder what I'm doing.

28:52.075 --> 28:55.507
And as we're starting to offer our mastermind for lawyers, they're going

28:55.510 --> 28:58.897
to start seeing that there's a different way to practice. And the ones that are

28:58.930 --> 29:02.225
having difficulty paying their bills every month are going to become very interested.

29:02.587 --> 29:06.102
That was my next question. That's the communication part of me that's

29:06.132 --> 29:09.892
asking that you have the secret. That means that right now I don't know what

29:09.940 --> 29:14.217
you just threw out a lot of numbers at me. There's definitely many attorneys

29:14.352 --> 29:17.997
that are well qualified, experienced and are still struggling

29:18.042 --> 29:20.677
to pay their bills because they didn't make a partner and now they're on their

29:20.695 --> 29:24.042
own or they're trying to be consultants

29:24.102 --> 29:27.027
and one off gigs and all this stuff. The end of the day they don't

29:27.057 --> 29:30.862
have any consistent income. It's not something that they can come

29:31.000 --> 29:34.567
to their social circle and announce because

29:34.615 --> 29:37.747
you're the attorney. You're the professional. He's the one who makes all the money.

29:37.780 --> 29:40.942
So that just adds to the problem. You have a real solution to these people.

29:40.990 --> 29:44.892
And that's a problem that hurts to the core because it touches their finances,

29:44.952 --> 29:48.322
it touches their ego, it touches their business, and you have

29:48.355 --> 29:51.802
a very real solution of doing what

29:51.820 --> 29:55.522
you do. Now, you mentioned something very important that you obviously do

29:55.555 --> 29:59.352
have an entrepreneurial spirit, even before remind

29:59.382 --> 30:02.527
me again, what did you do before law school? I had an independent agency that

30:02.545 --> 30:06.007
sold phone systems for all right, right, you did your phone system. Right. So you

30:06.010 --> 30:09.382
have a sales and business background, and so you get business,

30:09.460 --> 30:12.772
you've done the hard work, you've gone door to door, phone to phone,

30:12.805 --> 30:16.222
or however you did your sales. You know what people are? They're not just

30:16.255 --> 30:19.972
the invoice number. They're real people. And you can connect to people,

30:20.080 --> 30:23.947
which has allowed you to see the success that you're seeing. But at the same

30:23.980 --> 30:27.697
time, many attorneys are attorneys because they like to be

30:27.880 --> 30:30.982
paper pushers or like you described before,

30:31.060 --> 30:34.872
the yelling on the phone. Some people maybe don't

30:34.917 --> 30:38.727
have the best character traits, which can be expressed in somewhat

30:38.757 --> 30:42.342
of a productive way when you're yelling at the other company's attorneys

30:42.402 --> 30:45.697
if that's what you're paid to do. But when it comes to setting up a

30:45.730 --> 30:48.952
business model and managing a staff and attracting and

30:48.970 --> 30:52.062
retaining clients and pricing it appropriately,

30:52.137 --> 30:55.737
like you said, not $3,000 a month and really genuinely

30:55.812 --> 30:59.097
understanding your clients, I think I'm just from this conversation,

30:59.292 --> 31:02.272
to me, it sounds like that's from one of your biggest strengths. And again,

31:02.305 --> 31:05.722
I don't know you professionally hope not to need your services, but we can talk

31:05.755 --> 31:09.592
about that another time. But I think you generally understand the small business

31:09.715 --> 31:13.252
owners mindset, and you understand that you're charging them

31:13.270 --> 31:16.122
a monthly fee. I'm sure there's many months when your clients,

31:16.167 --> 31:20.197
besides your 20 minutes checking phone calls, that they have zero interaction and

31:20.230 --> 31:24.007
you could go to sleep comfortable knowing that they got the full value

31:24.160 --> 31:27.177
even if they don't talk to you at all. And I sound like a marketing

31:27.207 --> 31:30.502
to you, but I really believe in what you're doing because knowing that they

31:30.520 --> 31:34.072
have a real attorney that knows their name and knows who they are.

31:34.105 --> 31:37.747
Now, again, as you grow, it already is a struggle for you,

31:37.855 --> 31:41.442
but that's something that I'm sure you're going to address, that you're already addressing.

31:41.502 --> 31:45.247
But that itself is a tremendous value, and you don't need

31:45.280 --> 31:48.547
to have to you know, people don't get sued every single month. People don't form

31:48.580 --> 31:52.342
companies every single month. It's consistent. You could feel good

31:52.465 --> 31:56.542
that they're staying on as clients for a year, five years, ten years

31:56.665 --> 32:00.127
over time. It's consistent value that's being delivered without you

32:00.145 --> 32:03.592
having to service them, so to speak, every single day or every single

32:03.640 --> 32:06.877
week. And you have your assistance ensure that you're checking in. So, I mean,

32:06.895 --> 32:09.717
the business model is like win win win from everybody's standpoint.

32:09.852 --> 32:13.792
As long as I think the two caveats from the attorney standpoint is

32:13.840 --> 32:17.662
that they need to have the humility to not charge that $600

32:17.725 --> 32:21.337
an hour fee and B, they need to have the business sense

32:21.400 --> 32:25.042
to be able to set up a company. And like you mentioned, obviously you

32:25.090 --> 32:29.122
understand I would like to have a whole separate conversation just how you do your

32:29.305 --> 32:33.247
Facebook marketing and your targeting and all of this stuff. It can't be something

32:33.280 --> 32:37.377
that's annoying for them as something that they embrace wholeheartedly

32:37.407 --> 32:41.502
because that's how they're going to find their targeted clients or be honest and recognize

32:41.532 --> 32:45.097
that they don't have that skill and hire somebody that does.

32:45.130 --> 32:48.742
It doesn't matter who it is. Not everyone is Scott Reeves. So someone

32:48.790 --> 32:52.942
else, let's say Schwarzepamus was an attorney and he didn't know like

32:52.990 --> 32:56.332
or care about Facebook. And that's just for cat videos

32:56.410 --> 32:59.677
and whatever it is, and doesn't realize that that's where people are.

32:59.695 --> 33:02.902
It doesn't matter what people are interested in, but if that's what the people are

33:02.995 --> 33:05.932
and they're your clients and that's where they engage, you better be there.

33:06.010 --> 33:09.652
And if Facebook goes away tomorrow and it's called something else, then you better be

33:09.670 --> 33:12.727
in that place. And there are other places I'm sure you

33:12.745 --> 33:15.997
know already. I think those are the two key points. It's having

33:16.030 --> 33:19.692
the humility to be able to restructure the pricing

33:19.752 --> 33:22.807
appropriately and to recreate the structure in a

33:22.810 --> 33:26.602
way that you're doing. And it's not scamming. Like sometimes you have other

33:26.695 --> 33:29.797
either software, you need one time and you end up signing up for it and

33:29.830 --> 33:33.397
you forget about it because it's insignificant on your credit card bill or

33:33.430 --> 33:36.877
some other service that's recurring. You can feel comfortable that

33:36.895 --> 33:40.527
you're providing service every single month regardless of the interaction

33:40.557 --> 33:43.627
that you have with your clients and they'll be happy about it. You have an

33:43.645 --> 33:47.617
awesome product. Now the other thing is that on top of that is that

33:47.740 --> 33:51.027
saving attorneys from their struggle.

33:51.057 --> 33:53.602
I mean, it seems like that's something that's starting out with you. Do you have

33:53.620 --> 33:56.352
a program? If I have a friend who's an attorney who's dying on the vine

33:56.382 --> 33:59.077
and starting campaign is built, can I tell them to reach out to you can

33:59.095 --> 34:01.672
tell them to reach out to me. We're actually launching a mastermind that will start

34:01.705 --> 34:05.302
in August just for those lawyers. It's important for you to realize that for

34:05.320 --> 34:08.947
you it might come naturally, both of these things, but many

34:08.980 --> 34:11.662
lawyers are not like that and this is not limited to lawyers. I mean,

34:11.725 --> 34:15.112
having interviewed many professionals across a whole

34:15.175 --> 34:18.772
spectrum of industries, to simplify it, I put people into two

34:18.805 --> 34:22.267
categories and of course there's a broad spectrum and a range in both of them.

34:22.315 --> 34:25.507
But some people I think the way that you think, and I would like to

34:25.510 --> 34:28.807
put myself in that category too, and they are business minded and

34:28.810 --> 34:32.632
they see the full picture and they may have a particular skill set,

34:32.710 --> 34:36.082
experience, licensing credentialing in a particular field.

34:36.160 --> 34:39.307
By the end of the day, they see the entire picture. And for many of

34:39.310 --> 34:42.477
those people, it's uncomfortable to do the same repetitive task,

34:42.507 --> 34:45.652
no matter how much it's paying. Even if you're an open heart surgeon, you could

34:45.670 --> 34:49.152
be the most expensive attorney, and that you can command the fee

34:49.182 --> 34:52.927
that far exceeds $600 an hour. But you may not

34:52.945 --> 34:55.702
know the first thing about business. And when that dries up, like you said,

34:55.795 --> 34:58.837
you may actually be starving. I've had people who have worked

34:58.900 --> 35:02.032
for me in the nursing home world, and they've been exceptional in

35:02.035 --> 35:04.672
what they do. And I used to try and say, why don't you try and

35:04.705 --> 35:08.377
get to the next level? And eventually you can go here, and eventually you can

35:08.395 --> 35:12.142
go even further and own your company and live life

35:12.190 --> 35:15.472
on your own terms. And like no, I'm perfectly happy here. I make this

35:15.505 --> 35:18.622
amount of money. It's enough to support my lifestyle. I go home. I forget about

35:18.655 --> 35:21.892
work until I come the next day, and I get my vacation days and everything

35:21.940 --> 35:25.252
that works for me. That's one category of people. And attorneys are

35:25.270 --> 35:28.627
the same thing. They're not different than any other industry where some people just want

35:28.645 --> 35:31.377
to be on that payroll. They want to grow, and they want to make partner

35:31.407 --> 35:34.357
and all that. At the end of the day, they're company people. And then there

35:34.360 --> 35:37.987
are other people. Without sounding derogatory, I refer to them sometimes

35:38.050 --> 35:41.707
as pawns. They want to be a pawn in someone else's game, and that person

35:41.785 --> 35:45.172
who's the king or the queen, so to speak, is making the

35:45.205 --> 35:48.532
bigger decisions on the game. My job is to keep on

35:48.535 --> 35:51.577
doing what I was hired to do. Then you have the business deal. So the

35:51.595 --> 35:54.447
point is that I'm sure there are attorneys that are pond,

35:54.567 --> 35:57.922
exceptionally talented pawns at the end of the day when they

35:57.955 --> 36:01.182
don't make partner, and they're going out on their own. They're dying on the vine

36:01.197 --> 36:05.017
and starving, and they can gain tremendously from this. But if you can leave

36:05.065 --> 36:09.132
us here with what you think, again, you have quite a variety.

36:09.297 --> 36:12.097
Even before that, I wanted to ask you more question. Are you okay with that?

36:12.130 --> 36:15.217
Okay. Sure. Okay. Question number one was,

36:15.265 --> 36:18.157
did you ever sue the company that fired you? No.

36:18.310 --> 36:21.652
Okay. Did you ever thank them for introducing you to

36:21.670 --> 36:25.027
the legal career? No, I haven't. They're very big, and I

36:25.045 --> 36:28.057
met with a lawyer. There was someone willing to meet with me to explain to

36:28.060 --> 36:31.057
me all the things I'd done, where I'd messed up, and that even if I

36:31.060 --> 36:34.462
had a winning case, it would cost too much to fight that

36:34.525 --> 36:37.582
company. So it was a major lesson for me. And like I

36:37.585 --> 36:40.702
said, I probably should write them a thank you letter, but I actually don't pay

36:40.720 --> 36:44.047
them money for wireless service, so I guess that could be my thank

36:44.080 --> 36:46.972
you. But it was a horrible experience at the time, but in the end,

36:47.005 --> 36:50.812
it kind of started my entrepreneurial journey. It's not been

36:50.875 --> 36:54.222
a straight path, but it's been a good path. It's never a straight

36:54.267 --> 36:57.532
path. The second question is, we mentioned this a couple

36:57.535 --> 37:01.252
of times already. How did you get involved in the Zig Ziglar company?

37:01.420 --> 37:05.152
How did that happen? Oh, wow. Yeah. So I created the access plan

37:05.245 --> 37:08.152
and was trying to figure out who to sell it to. And one of the

37:08.170 --> 37:11.452
niches that I was really interested in was we're speakers, trainers and

37:11.470 --> 37:14.767
coaches, because trainers and coaches were their whole

37:14.815 --> 37:18.472
life is about helping people, right. They're positive people. They're fun to be around.

37:18.580 --> 37:22.252
I'm going to have to work. I'd rather be around those people. And then if

37:22.270 --> 37:25.882
I'm helping them, then my effect is exponential because

37:25.960 --> 37:29.092
I'm helping them and then they're helping hundreds and thousands of people.

37:29.215 --> 37:32.602
So I actually hired another coach to help me learn how

37:32.620 --> 37:36.282
to do that. And through that experience, I had a homework assignment

37:36.372 --> 37:39.847
to go to a live event and then come back to the mastermind group and

37:39.880 --> 37:43.152
explain kind of what you observed, and we would all take notes.

37:43.257 --> 37:47.242
So I get back to Texas from the meeting that was in Atlanta, and most

37:47.290 --> 37:49.777
of the people were going to the West Coast of things. I did not want

37:49.795 --> 37:53.182
to fly to the West Coast. I'm like, who's in Texas? The only name I

37:53.185 --> 37:56.902
knew was Zig. And so I used Google,

37:56.995 --> 38:00.397
found a Sigma Born to Win event, and it was

38:00.430 --> 38:03.867
actually in Houston. So I got on a Southwest jet,

38:03.927 --> 38:07.327
flew to Houston on Tuesday night, woke up, went to

38:07.345 --> 38:11.322
the event that morning in the big room, and was just amazed

38:11.367 --> 38:15.142
at the information. I was just there to observe. And when

38:15.190 --> 38:18.202
Tom Ziggy got up and talked, all the content and things he was talking about

38:18.220 --> 38:21.532
were amazing. And then his partner, Howard Partridge, got up

38:21.535 --> 38:24.907
and did his part. And then at lunchtime, we were kind of

38:24.910 --> 38:28.657
in the middle of nowhere. I was talking to the hotel lobby at

38:28.660 --> 38:31.972
the desk, but where do I go for lunch? And she said, well, there's really

38:32.005 --> 38:35.307
nothing walking distance. And Howard Parkinson

38:35.322 --> 38:38.707
at that time walks up behind me and says, hey, boss, do you

38:38.785 --> 38:41.692
need a ride to lunch? I said, that'd be great. And he goes,

38:41.740 --> 38:44.002
well, come with me and I'll take you to lunch. We're going to meet some

38:44.020 --> 38:47.497
people that are in my coaching group. So I get in his car and we

38:47.530 --> 38:50.782
drive there. And on the way back, he says, how are you getting to the

38:50.785 --> 38:54.502
airport tonight? And I said, Well, I have the card for the guy that

38:54.595 --> 38:57.322
brought me here in the cab. I'll just call him. And he said, no,

38:57.355 --> 39:01.017
Tom will take you. I'm like Tom. Who? He said tom ziggler.

39:01.152 --> 39:04.557
I said okay. So we get back to the hotel, and Tom walks

39:04.572 --> 39:07.312
by and he says, hey, Tom, you need to take Scott to the airport today

39:07.375 --> 39:11.092
at the end of the session. And he goes, that's great. I'm done at 345,

39:11.140 --> 39:13.882
and then I'm walking out. So I went and got my suitcase, put it in

39:13.885 --> 39:16.927
the back of the room. Tom finished his deal up before we were done.

39:16.945 --> 39:20.652
I'd signed up for their coaching program, and we walked out the door,

39:20.682 --> 39:23.422
got in his rental car, and we're stuck in Houston traffic for an hour and

39:23.455 --> 39:27.042
45 minutes. I'm riding around with the proud son of Zig Zigler.

39:27.102 --> 39:30.897
It was a surreal experience, like we talked about before the show. Is he ziggy?

39:30.942 --> 39:33.972
No, but he is his son. And it was incredible.

39:34.092 --> 39:38.347
And we pull up to Hobby Airport, we both get on different planes, and then

39:38.455 --> 39:42.007
we get back to Dallas. There's another event

39:42.085 --> 39:45.247
in Dallas a week later. I can't beat the whole thing

39:45.280 --> 39:49.357
because I had a prior engagement that morning. But I drive 30 miles down there,

39:49.435 --> 39:52.722
walk in just before lunch, and get to meet a bunch of the Ziggler

39:52.767 --> 39:56.482
team at that point in Dallas, and one of them

39:56.560 --> 39:59.872
starts asking me, what do you do? I told him about the access plan,

39:59.980 --> 40:03.967
and he's like, we need this. I'm like, great. He goes,

40:04.015 --> 40:06.532
well, you just need to tell time about it. And I go, Well, I kind

40:06.535 --> 40:09.202
of told Tom about it in the car. He goes, Well, I'll set up a

40:09.220 --> 40:12.357
lunch. So this was in September of 13.

40:12.522 --> 40:16.262
By November 13, I was having lunch with Tom ziggler.

40:16.837 --> 40:20.517
Zigglers. They're all about sales. They're the sales gurus.

40:20.577 --> 40:24.292
So we sit down at lunch. That must be pretty scary to present to them.

40:24.340 --> 40:27.877
I'm like, I've got my sales presentation with me. Can I just present it to

40:27.895 --> 40:31.617
you? And you just give me some feedback? So I go through my presentation

40:31.677 --> 40:34.252
and I get done with it. And I said, Is there any reason that you

40:34.270 --> 40:38.612
wouldn't do business with me today? Awesome. Well, no. Give me a proposal.

40:39.487 --> 40:43.572
I gave him an alternative quote that he couldn't refuse, and they've been access clients

40:43.617 --> 40:46.897
ever since. That is awesome. And then now I speak on stages for them around

40:46.930 --> 40:50.152
the country. Wow, that is such an awesome

40:50.320 --> 40:53.992
story. Is there any reason why you wouldn't move forward with me

40:54.040 --> 40:57.457
today? That is awesome. You have a lot to be proud of. You have

40:57.460 --> 41:01.387
a very exciting career, and I definitely look forward to watching

41:01.450 --> 41:04.782
it, how it develops further. You have a lot of innovative

41:04.872 --> 41:08.797
yet simple approaches, which usually those are the things that work

41:08.905 --> 41:11.872
so complex. You can't explain it to a two year old, right? If my kids

41:11.905 --> 41:14.992
don't understand it, they're very open and they have no filter. But they usually

41:15.040 --> 41:18.052
very good at telling me if my next business idea is a good one or

41:18.070 --> 41:22.072
a bad one. Just a very fact I'm presenting to them sometimes gets

41:22.105 --> 41:25.447
them wary, like, Where's he going next? You just take something

41:25.480 --> 41:29.607
and stick to it. Anyway, the point is, it's been an absolute pleasure

41:29.697 --> 41:33.232
having you on the show. I really appreciate you taking some time out

41:33.235 --> 41:36.952
of your schedule. I certainly hope I'm not going to get a

41:36.970 --> 41:39.437
$600 bill for this conversation.

41:40.387 --> 41:43.927
At this point, that would not be something that is healthy for

41:43.945 --> 41:47.707
my business. But can you give us, if the listeners want to

41:47.785 --> 41:51.247
engage with you further or if they want to hear some more about either

41:51.280 --> 41:54.397
the Mastermind program for attorneys or what you mentioned,

41:54.505 --> 41:58.327
America's Legal Coach for small business owners? Where can

41:58.345 --> 42:03.217
they go to get more information? The best places to go to rebill.com

42:03.340 --> 42:07.657
reinlaw.com Nine

42:07.735 --> 42:11.692
to Five. And we have a special page set up just for your listeners and

42:11.740 --> 42:15.232
they'll have the ability to go back to your show. They want to with a

42:15.235 --> 42:19.057
button there. And then we're offering my five Proven strategies to shatterproof for

42:19.060 --> 42:22.282
your Business ebook. They can get that if they click a button that

42:22.285 --> 42:25.972
can download that for free. And then we'd also like to offer your listeners a

42:26.005 --> 42:29.302
free 15 minutes strategy session with one of our

42:29.320 --> 42:32.497
legal coaches. Awesome. And they can access all

42:32.530 --> 42:36.202
that from that page? Yes, sir. Okay, excellent. We'll definitely put a link to that

42:36.220 --> 42:40.132
in the episode. Show notes. That is actually a very generous offer.

42:40.210 --> 42:43.717
I very much appreciate it. I think the only way you can make such

42:43.765 --> 42:46.477
an offer knowing that people will take you up on it, and I'm going to

42:46.495 --> 42:49.402
encourage them to take you up on it. I think you have so much to

42:49.420 --> 42:53.512
offer any small business owner. I think it's really that mind shift from being

42:53.575 --> 42:57.142
I'm a $600 an hour employee, so I'm going to empower small

42:57.190 --> 43:01.117
business owners and it's going to come back to you in a big way like

43:01.165 --> 43:04.432
you quantified before. Thank you so much, Scott, for coming on the show. You're welcome.

43:04.510 --> 43:08.077
This has been, I would have to say, from my more memorable and

43:08.095 --> 43:11.662
enjoyable interview episodes and that's coming back to back from another

43:11.725 --> 43:15.202
episode. That was awesome. So it says a lot. Great. Thank you for having

43:15.220 --> 43:18.547
me on it. It's a pleasure. Thank you for

43:18.580 --> 43:22.372
listening to this episode of the Love Your Nine to Five show. We hope

43:22.405 --> 43:26.532
that you've enjoyed listening to this episode as much as we've

43:26.547 --> 43:30.667
enjoyed recording this episode. Please head on over to

43:30.715 --> 43:33.877
itunes and leave us a great review. You can

43:33.895 --> 43:37.327
let others know about this wonderful Love Your Nine to

43:37.345 --> 43:40.822
Five show. Make sure to welcome to you there to

43:40.855 --> 43:44.302
subscribe and ensure that you never miss another episode of

43:44.320 --> 43:47.517
the Love Your Nine to Five show. Again, head on over to itunes,

43:47.577 --> 43:51.592
leave us a wonderful review letting the world know to

43:51.640 --> 43:55.522
listen to the Love Your Nine to Five show and subscribe to

43:55.555 --> 43:59.142
make sure you don't miss any future episodes. Thank you so much for listening,

43:59.277 --> 44:02.547
for allowing me to come through on your earbuds

44:02.667 --> 44:06.517
and looking forward to bring you more awesome content in the very

44:06.565 --> 44:06.975
near future.