Welcome to our new website!
Oct. 3, 2022

Hire and Retain the Best CNAs

What if the only thing keeping a would-be experienced and passionate healthcare worker from becoming a CNA was money?

Athena Kan, CEO of Dreambound, understands that one of the largest barriers preventing people from becoming CNAs is finding funding for a training program.

During her research into health disparities at John Hopkins, Athena witnessed the difficulties that aspiring healthcare workers who were underprivileged and financially insecure had in starting their career. 

Single parents who were already working paycheck to paycheck could not afford to put themself through a CNA training program. 

There is also the issue of overcomplication and outdatedness present in CNA training school sign-ups. Websites are hard to reach or do not even exist. Application documents are difficult to fill out and obtain. 

Many of the people coming up against these problems are truly passionate about helping others and often already have experience and understanding of what they will face. 

On the other side of the equation, facilities search high and low for CNAs to hire on.

In the post pandemic world, many CNAs have turned to other careers and it is often a struggle to find qualified CNAs who will stay on for more than a few weeks. 

Athena’s company Dreambound addresses both of these problems simultaneously. 

Dreambound works with 150 schools and training programs in multiple states. If there’s a school that’s currently not on the platform all they have to do is sign up on the website and start getting students.

Instead of a complicated application process, prospective students have only to fill out one universal application which will be directed to any of the schools on the platform. 

For facilities, Dreambound provides a system by which they can choose students to sponsor who will come and work for them afterwards. 

Athena also states that many schools are looking for clinical sites for their training. By taking this position, a facility will attract a lot more graduating CNAs who will have already trained there and decide to stay on out of the closeness and convenience.

 

FOLLOW ATHENA AND DREAMBOUND

 

RELATED EPISODES

_________________________________

Sponsor an episode of The Nursing Home Podcast for super targeted exposure to senior care decision-makers! 

Tell me more!

Transcript

00:02.487 --> 00:05.917
We saw that. I mean, a ton of the often

00:06.040 --> 00:09.817
low income single moms who we were working with, they wanted to start

00:09.865 --> 00:13.687
a career out in healthcare. They love helping people. They love

00:13.750 --> 00:16.942
being able to invest in their communities and care for people.

00:17.065 --> 00:20.300
But what was stopping them was just getting the license itself.

00:22.087 --> 00:25.267
You can start and get your CNA license for as low as, like,

00:25.315 --> 00:28.627
$800, but for people who are living paycheck to

00:28.645 --> 00:30.512
paycheck, that can be really expensive.

00:41.212 --> 00:45.147
Welcome to the nursing home podcast. Your goto source

00:45.192 --> 00:48.462
for professional insights in the longterm care industry.

00:48.612 --> 00:52.602
Hear from leaders and experts as they share current and practical insights

00:52.632 --> 00:56.382
to help make the most of your day. I'm the long term care financial specialist.

00:56.472 --> 00:59.697
What that means is I help people plan for the inevitable.

00:59.817 --> 01:03.427
Nobody wants to think about getting old, but it's possible that someday we might need

01:03.445 --> 01:07.782
a little bit of care. Here's your host nursing home administrator turned podcaster

01:07.872 --> 01:09.587
Schmuel septimach.

01:11.887 --> 01:15.247
Today we're going to talk about DNAs hot

01:15.280 --> 01:18.627
topics. Anyone who's involved in nursing homes.

01:18.732 --> 01:21.287
Today's guests, we have Athena Khan.

01:21.787 --> 01:24.500
Athena, I think I said that right,

01:25.087 --> 01:28.612
is the CEO of Dreambound, the number one platform for students

01:28.750 --> 01:31.902
to find a register for CNA and other training programs.

01:31.932 --> 01:35.742
Dreambound works with customers like Brookdale and Goodsmaritan, says sponsorship

01:35.802 --> 01:39.127
programs and hire work is straight out of school. All right, we'll hear

01:39.145 --> 01:42.512
more about that later. Tina. Welcome to the nursing home podcast.

01:42.937 --> 01:46.102
Thank you. You're excited to be on? Yes, excited to have

01:46.120 --> 01:49.972
you here as well. So for our listeners, they've heard about

01:50.005 --> 01:54.052
me before, have not heard from you before. So give us a

01:54.070 --> 01:57.517
brief background of who you are and how you got to do what you're doing.

01:57.715 --> 02:01.182
Yeah. So I started my career out at Johns Hopkins

02:01.272 --> 02:04.357
doing research. I was looking at minority health

02:04.435 --> 02:08.347
and health disparities. It's pretty much

02:08.380 --> 02:11.917
obvious now, but you can see that people who are low

02:11.965 --> 02:15.322
income, who are people of color are set

02:15.355 --> 02:18.372
up pretty much for so many disadvantages.

02:18.417 --> 02:22.117
Later down the road, you see maternal education is the biggest predictor for

02:22.240 --> 02:25.552
a child's health. And so it became really, really important to

02:25.570 --> 02:29.772
me to be able to help people achieve greater education and greater

02:29.817 --> 02:33.477
income so that can impact them and their children's outcomes

02:33.507 --> 02:37.842
and health outcomes and financial outcomes for the foreseeable

02:37.902 --> 02:41.767
future. And just talking to a lot of the different

02:41.890 --> 02:46.117
patients and residents that we worked with at Johns Hopkins, we saw that

02:46.315 --> 02:49.957
a ton of the often low income single moms who

02:49.960 --> 02:53.637
we were working with, they wanted to start a career out in healthcare.

02:53.712 --> 02:57.367
They loved helping people. They loved being able to invest

02:57.415 --> 03:00.697
in their communities and care for people. But what was stopping them

03:00.730 --> 03:02.675
was just getting the license itself.

03:04.462 --> 03:07.402
You can start and get your CNA license for as low as,

03:07.420 --> 03:10.902
like, $800, but for people who are living paycheck

03:10.932 --> 03:14.332
to paycheck, that can be really expensive. And at the same time you

03:14.335 --> 03:17.697
have nursing homes who are paying $3,000 signing bonuses.

03:17.742 --> 03:21.457
And so I was thinking where is this disconnect coming from? And so

03:21.535 --> 03:24.997
I wanted to make it really easy for someone to sign up for school if

03:25.030 --> 03:27.682
they could afford it. And if they can't afford it, we match them with an

03:27.685 --> 03:29.900
employer who can help them pay to go through training.

03:32.062 --> 03:35.482
Interesting, very interesting couples. First of

03:35.485 --> 03:38.975
all, you made the connection income to outcome, which is interesting,

03:39.562 --> 03:43.637
but your income can will affect outcome

03:44.062 --> 03:47.767
where you going to end up. But on top of that,

03:47.965 --> 03:51.097
where were you working with the students where

03:51.130 --> 03:54.247
they wanted express interest to become a CNA. But they had this problem.

03:54.355 --> 03:58.192
What was that setting and was set up? I mean, in this specific case

03:58.240 --> 04:02.217
it was out at community health clinics just talking to a lot of the patients

04:02.277 --> 04:05.662
that were part of the studies that I was looking at. But I mean,

04:05.725 --> 04:09.162
working through Dreambound we encounter people everywhere.

04:09.237 --> 04:12.877
People in local communities who are going to

04:12.895 --> 04:16.672
church, people who have graduated high school and now working as

04:16.705 --> 04:20.577
a home health care aid or a caregiver. Maybe they're working at Amazon

04:20.682 --> 04:24.297
or retail warehousing, any number of these other roles.

04:24.417 --> 04:28.087
And they want to be in healthcare. But what's stopping them is

04:28.150 --> 04:32.047
the upfront cost of going to school. And we

04:32.080 --> 04:35.600
wanted to make that easier for them to solve. Okay,

04:37.312 --> 04:40.627
the second part of the equation I'm very familiar with and

04:40.645 --> 04:44.292
deal with all the time, the fact that there are employers who are willing

04:44.427 --> 04:48.187
and they'll do anything. Like you said, they'll give

04:48.325 --> 04:52.047
sometimes insane sign on bonuses and all sorts of perks

04:52.092 --> 04:55.822
and pay the wages that are necessary in order to

04:55.855 --> 04:59.082
get CNAs on board. Not just CNAs,

04:59.097 --> 05:03.247
but CNAs is definitely a big piece of it. That's certainly

05:03.355 --> 05:06.697
true and that's what I see every day. But the

05:06.730 --> 05:10.392
other half that there are these potential CNAs,

05:10.527 --> 05:14.157
these are not yet soon to be health caregivers, but they're

05:14.172 --> 05:17.677
not yet healthcare givers. They're interested

05:17.770 --> 05:21.352
and they want to and they're very excited to get into health care. They have

05:21.370 --> 05:25.102
this barrier of the training which is getting in the way.

05:25.195 --> 05:29.017
And the more specifically the barrier is paying for that training which

05:29.065 --> 05:38.937
the providers, your 100% provider,

05:39.012 --> 05:42.502
would be really glad to pay for

05:42.520 --> 05:45.802
that training. So let me ask

05:45.820 --> 05:49.252
a question this way. We've seen since

05:49.420 --> 05:52.897
COVID that a lot of people who

05:52.930 --> 05:56.827
are CNAs and they are licensed are leaving healthcare. They're going into

05:56.920 --> 06:00.327
the going to the Amazon and they're going to the local restaurants

06:00.357 --> 06:04.297
and the guns are placed where they don't have a lot of the stresses that

06:04.480 --> 06:07.250
direct line caregivers have.

06:08.137 --> 06:11.937
These people who are coming into your network

06:12.012 --> 06:13.925
and to coming through your company,

06:15.862 --> 06:19.550
are they not aware of the challenges? Do they not care?

06:20.212 --> 06:24.522
And I'll even make it not even related

06:24.567 --> 06:28.027
to COVID Even before that, as an administrator, I always used to

06:28.045 --> 06:31.327
wonder why people become CNAs. It's a

06:31.345 --> 06:35.097
very, very difficult job. It's very physically labor

06:35.142 --> 06:38.997
intensive. The people that you're caring for in a nursing home setting

06:39.117 --> 06:42.132
many times are unable to express their appreciation.

06:42.297 --> 06:45.502
Many times they don't appreciate what you're doing. You can get yelled at,

06:45.520 --> 06:49.222
you can get beaten up. And I had to discard anyone. And if

06:49.255 --> 06:53.287
you mess up, if you do something, you can kill people.

06:53.425 --> 06:56.967
It's pretty serious. As opposed to working in Amazon.

06:57.027 --> 07:01.177
It might not be as fulfilling maybe, but you

07:01.195 --> 07:04.852
can get paid the same amount or more. You're not mandated for

07:04.870 --> 07:08.232
overtime. You don't have all the risks involved.

07:08.397 --> 07:11.525
So that's really why I find that interesting.

07:12.187 --> 07:16.297
It's encouraging. But I'm also trying to understand the

07:16.330 --> 07:19.627
people who you encounter there like oh, if only I could become a

07:19.645 --> 07:22.852
CNA. Are they aware of all

07:22.870 --> 07:25.897
this? Yeah, it's a great question and you're right,

07:25.930 --> 07:29.722
it is surprising. Especially as you see Amazon is

07:29.755 --> 07:33.397
increasing their wages. You see Target, Walmart all doing the same thing

07:33.430 --> 07:37.177
and you look at CNA and sometimes it pays a lot less. And sure

07:37.270 --> 07:40.407
there's all these like travel CNA roles that can pay a lot more potentially.

07:40.497 --> 07:44.392
But yeah, it is a question that a lot of,

07:44.590 --> 07:48.132
especially like nursing home recruiters

07:48.147 --> 07:51.892
are thinking about how do I compete and position myself against not just other

07:51.940 --> 07:55.827
nursing homes, but also against Amazon and Walmart and Target.

07:56.007 --> 07:59.952
But I mean, we talk to hundreds or thousands

07:59.982 --> 08:03.397
of CNAs who are about to start training and ask

08:03.430 --> 08:06.802
them why they want to do this. Especially as they are about to

08:06.820 --> 08:10.102
get sponsored by an employer. And that employer wants to make sure that

08:10.120 --> 08:13.717
that CNA is actually going to stick around. And we see the

08:13.765 --> 08:17.152
people who are excited about enrolling in a

08:17.170 --> 08:20.237
class. They want to do it for a couple of reasons.

08:20.887 --> 08:23.977
The most important that we see is that none of them want to stop at

08:23.995 --> 08:26.827
being a CNA. They don't want to just get a CNA and then stick to

08:26.845 --> 08:30.097
being a CNA for 30 years. They want to level up and

08:30.130 --> 08:33.532
be like a medication aid. We see very quickly after, people want

08:33.535 --> 08:36.832
to become like a phlebotomist six months after their training, they want to become a

08:36.835 --> 08:40.327
medical assistant. Pct love to a hospital. A lot

08:40.345 --> 08:43.627
of them want to do travel and especially during the pandemic they're hearing from all

08:43.645 --> 08:47.422
their friends about travel. CNA makes so much I'm excited to get

08:47.455 --> 08:50.962
trained because I want to do this travel position. We see

08:51.025 --> 08:55.192
also a lot of people who are about to start their nursing school,

08:55.390 --> 08:58.822
the LBN or RN and then they want to get that hands on

08:58.855 --> 09:01.927
experience. They want to get started and get

09:01.945 --> 09:05.472
their foot in the door before they start getting trained as an LVN

09:05.517 --> 09:09.787
or RN. But even just the career advancement part. I mean, people love

09:09.850 --> 09:14.067
caring for others or at least the ones that we work with. We've heard countless

09:14.127 --> 09:17.842
stories of students who are talking about how

09:17.965 --> 09:21.927
they took care of their grandmother when they were 17 and their grandmother had dementia

09:21.957 --> 09:25.027
or Alzheimer's and they wanted to be able to do the same thing for the

09:25.045 --> 09:27.987
community. And so people are coming in really informed.

09:28.062 --> 09:31.552
They either have like a parent or a sister or

09:31.570 --> 09:35.152
friend who's become a CNA. They know what it's like, they know they

09:35.170 --> 09:38.527
want to do it. People who haven't heard about it, they need to

09:38.545 --> 09:41.197
know what that is before they make this commitment because it is a really hard

09:41.230 --> 09:44.577
job. But I mean, people see that there is mobility,

09:44.682 --> 09:47.817
they see that there is wages

09:47.877 --> 09:50.912
are starting to increase. And I think all of that is really attractive,

09:52.912 --> 09:57.552
interesting. So for the most part it's

09:57.582 --> 10:01.432
also interesting that you actually ask this question head on because

10:01.510 --> 10:05.032
you're right. If I'm hiring a

10:05.035 --> 10:08.152
company to help me get CNAs and help them get trains and I'm paying for

10:08.170 --> 10:12.232
their training, I want to know that they know what they're getting themselves into

10:12.385 --> 10:15.717
so that actually start to stay. And they don't say, oh, my goodness,

10:15.777 --> 10:19.042
I didn't realize that I'm going to be on my feet for many hours

10:19.090 --> 10:22.842
in a row. I don't realize I'm going to be dragging things through the hallway

10:22.902 --> 10:26.872
and all these responsibilities and everything else

10:26.905 --> 10:29.900
that goes on in all nursing homes for the most part.

10:31.237 --> 10:34.342
It's very fascinating. But I always

10:34.390 --> 10:37.927
had this question and I think what you said

10:37.945 --> 10:41.797
is 100% sure. It has to start some things. I want to go into health

10:41.830 --> 10:45.587
care. Someone who's making a statement.

10:46.537 --> 10:50.197
Everyone has something that they like to naturally do,

10:50.380 --> 10:53.977
at least in a general sense. Some people would love to sit in front

10:53.995 --> 10:56.375
of a computer and just do stuff,

10:57.262 --> 11:01.152
technology. And those people are probably not the same people who want to be CNAs

11:01.332 --> 11:05.312
or nurses or doctors for that matter, or a lot of other things or mechanics.

11:07.012 --> 11:10.822
Some of them become a senior. That means that they deeply care about. They really

11:10.855 --> 11:14.602
want to help other people hands on. Yeah.

11:14.620 --> 11:18.202
And think about all the home health aides'and, the unlicensed caregivers who are

11:18.220 --> 11:21.772
doing a lot of the very similar work that a CNA would do and they

11:21.805 --> 11:25.552
just get paid two dollars to three dollars less an hour. They are looking to

11:25.570 --> 11:28.412
get their CNA for them ability and pay bump.

11:30.937 --> 11:35.062
Yeah. At the same time, the amount of people that

11:35.125 --> 11:38.352
schedule interviews to come to a nursing home and don't

11:38.382 --> 11:41.697
show up, not the people who come and they're hired

11:41.742 --> 11:44.647
and they fill out all the paperwork and they don't show up to orientation or

11:44.680 --> 11:48.127
leave after a week or two weeks, the same pool. This is

11:48.145 --> 11:50.762
not your fault. Maybe not completely your fault.

11:52.687 --> 11:54.200
We see that all the time.

11:57.862 --> 12:01.252
Okay? Yeah. Obviously they want to give to other

12:01.270 --> 12:04.657
people. They also want to provide for their families and they need to go to

12:04.660 --> 12:07.632
the place that's going to pay them the amount that's necessary.

12:07.797 --> 12:11.532
But if someone's coming in in a clear path

12:11.622 --> 12:15.202
and it's not just about the rates, let me

12:15.220 --> 12:19.597
flip the question two

12:19.630 --> 12:22.872
things. What is important to CNA when they're

12:22.917 --> 12:26.172
looking for a job? From a facility standpoint,

12:26.292 --> 12:29.742
what could a facility do to make a attract that CNA

12:29.802 --> 12:33.102
to come and work for them and to get a longer term

12:33.132 --> 12:36.247
commitment that they're going to want to work for them and stay and grow with

12:36.280 --> 12:40.042
them? Yeah, I mean, it's something that we think about every day.

12:40.090 --> 12:43.942
And I like to break down the problem into three different

12:43.990 --> 12:47.217
stages on those. The first would be just like, how do you get those initial

12:47.277 --> 12:50.842
applications? And most CNAs are going to be looking

12:50.890 --> 12:54.642
for some bar of pay and then distance from wherever

12:54.702 --> 12:57.727
their home is, or maybe a distance from they need to drop their kids off

12:57.745 --> 13:01.282
or something like that. Just like a convenient location. So those are always going to

13:01.285 --> 13:04.597
be the most important. And pay, especially you're going to see as

13:04.705 --> 13:08.232
the most number one thing for CNA is trying to pick a role,

13:08.247 --> 13:11.347
or really anyone trying to pick a role in health care where it is so

13:11.380 --> 13:14.662
competitive. And so that's why you see travel. Nursing is

13:14.725 --> 13:17.797
picking up so much demand. You see all these Facebook groups where

13:17.830 --> 13:21.787
it's literally just like 25 an hour. And then you have 40

13:21.850 --> 13:25.627
comments of people saying, send me more info because that's all they care about.

13:25.795 --> 13:29.152
So that's definitely true. CNAs just have so much optionality in the

13:29.170 --> 13:33.517
market that they are willing to leave their facility for an extra 25,

13:33.565 --> 13:37.207
$0.50 an hour. More distance I would say is becoming more important.

13:37.285 --> 13:41.362
Especially like gas prices are going up. No one wants to travel 30 minutes

13:41.425 --> 13:44.977
each way for a $0.25 an hour increase when

13:44.995 --> 13:47.952
they could work somewhere that's like five minutes away and it's a lot closer.

13:47.982 --> 13:51.275
It doesn't cost them as much in gas money.

13:52.087 --> 13:56.052
And then I think after that, when it gets to the actual interviewing

13:56.082 --> 13:59.842
and job offer stage, I think speed really matters a lot.

14:00.040 --> 14:03.337
You see people are really trying to

14:03.400 --> 14:06.682
care for themselves and their families. They're trying to work as soon as possible.

14:06.835 --> 14:10.102
And so we have heard our employers that

14:10.120 --> 14:14.172
are really fast about responding, they whatever go to indeed.

14:14.217 --> 14:17.677
And they look at people who have updated their resume in the last day.

14:17.770 --> 14:20.992
They contact them immediately. And then that person who's actively looking

14:21.040 --> 14:23.842
is now able to get a job offer in a day or two.

14:24.040 --> 14:27.172
That makes a huge difference. But even if you do all of those

14:27.205 --> 14:30.622
things, you still might end up having a ton of turnover just within the first

14:30.655 --> 14:34.077
30 days. I mean, at this point, nursing homes aren't even recording

14:34.107 --> 14:37.492
the turnover because just so many people like show up

14:37.540 --> 14:40.497
or don't even show up to orientation. Or if they show up the orientation,

14:40.542 --> 14:44.077
they might not show up in day one or stick out through the first week.

14:44.170 --> 14:48.067
And I think that's when you see more of the culture coming

14:48.115 --> 14:51.927
in, people want to see is this facility filled

14:51.957 --> 14:55.902
with workers who are really like depressed and who are overworked

14:55.932 --> 14:59.647
and understaffed and people can really get that vibrant when they

14:59.680 --> 15:03.082
are starting to actually work. Do they feel like they had

15:03.085 --> 15:05.997
a good orientation or do they feel like they're kind of thrown to the wolves

15:06.042 --> 15:09.562
and have to figure out everything themselves? Especially for a new training

15:09.625 --> 15:13.722
that can be really overwhelming versus some of our best facilities

15:13.767 --> 15:17.607
that we work with. Set up someone with like a mentor who's more experienced.

15:17.697 --> 15:20.917
They set a clear ladder of here's what your next

15:20.965 --> 15:24.022
year is going to look like. The first six months, you're going to have this

15:24.055 --> 15:28.027
mentor who's going to teach you how to do these things. After your six months,

15:28.195 --> 15:31.042
you can either become a mentor yourself,

15:31.165 --> 15:33.942
you can take more of a senior lead for this shift,

15:34.077 --> 15:37.377
or you can even go back to school and become a medication aid.

15:37.482 --> 15:41.427
Those are things that people really care about. Otherwise staffing

15:41.457 --> 15:44.967
ratios are important to people want to feel like they are delivering

15:45.027 --> 15:48.522
good work to the people that they're serving. People really, really deeply

15:48.567 --> 15:52.567
care about their patients and the residents. And so they want to feel like their

15:52.690 --> 15:56.077
coworkers are not cutting corners, that they don't have

15:56.095 --> 15:59.375
to cut corners themselves because they're serving 15 people.

16:00.037 --> 16:03.652
I mean, all of that, yeah, basically it all matters. I would say,

16:03.670 --> 16:07.175
in order of importance. It's pay, then distance and then

16:07.612 --> 16:09.875
more of the cultural things that you see.

16:10.762 --> 16:14.272
Very fascinating, very complete answer. Thank you. I think that's really

16:14.305 --> 16:18.577
fantastic because I

16:18.595 --> 16:21.967
sit down with clients all the time and say we're doing our onboarding calls and

16:22.015 --> 16:25.752
I will ask them, why should somebody work for you versus the nursing

16:25.782 --> 16:28.942
home down the block? And I can't tell you how many

16:28.990 --> 16:32.547
times they draw a blank

16:32.667 --> 16:35.857
like, well, we have a good culture, we pay good.

16:36.010 --> 16:39.157
Like, okay, so is that place and they also pay well,

16:39.235 --> 16:42.472
they also have a good culture. Many times

16:42.505 --> 16:46.025
the boys are out to culture and

16:46.987 --> 16:50.247
everyone at least claims that their culture is better. Some people genuinely

16:50.292 --> 16:54.442
believe that way. In some places it's true. But I completely

16:54.490 --> 16:57.307
agree with what you said, is that that's not going to cut it. First of

16:57.310 --> 17:00.882
all, you can't sell that in your ads in person. It doesn't

17:00.897 --> 17:04.777
matter how you're selling the job because

17:04.795 --> 17:07.777
everyone's going to say that that's something you have to see and experience in order

17:07.795 --> 17:11.017
for it to be meaningful. And if that's the only thing you have to sell,

17:11.065 --> 17:14.497
even if it's true, you're never going to get the first base because

17:14.605 --> 17:18.425
how are they supposed to know that? So the first thing, like you said,

17:18.787 --> 17:22.867
the wages have to be competitive. At the very least, competitive, if not

17:22.990 --> 17:26.602
higher in the location and that's where

17:26.620 --> 17:29.947
it kicks in. I think the other thing is that everyone

17:29.980 --> 17:32.947
calls it the revolving door. You finally work so hard,

17:32.980 --> 17:35.722
you pay so much money, time,

17:35.830 --> 17:38.887
resources to get people in the door. And once they're finally

17:38.950 --> 17:42.612
there, like I said, if they show up to orientation,

17:42.687 --> 17:46.777
if they stay for a week, but it seems like you

17:46.795 --> 17:49.797
alluded to this. But I think it's true that after a certain point, if they're

17:49.842 --> 17:53.602
in, not that they're in forever, you always have to work in retention. But if

17:53.620 --> 17:56.922
you could get past that first month or two months, however long that period

17:56.967 --> 18:00.562
is, then they already know what this is and they're comfortable with it.

18:00.700 --> 18:04.102
They feel like they're getting compensated fairly. They feel like

18:04.195 --> 18:08.272
the distance, the older technical things that works out with

18:08.455 --> 18:12.102
their life, and they are comfortable

18:12.132 --> 18:15.432
with the people that they're working with, with the level of care that they're providing,

18:15.597 --> 18:19.147
and they feel like there's room for advancement. People actually care about them.

18:19.255 --> 18:22.672
They're not just thrown to the wolves. So then you have a chance

18:22.705 --> 18:25.327
of actually holding on to this person for a little bit longer. And you have

18:25.345 --> 18:28.897
to be open and willing to give

18:28.930 --> 18:32.232
them the next step, even if it means losing them as an employee. Because that's

18:32.247 --> 18:35.975
the only way you have to really care about them. Like you can't fake that

18:36.787 --> 18:40.102
because if the next step means going to

18:40.120 --> 18:43.477
nursing school now, they will no longer work for you. You have to allow them

18:43.495 --> 18:46.702
to do that. You have to genuinely care about them in order for that to

18:46.720 --> 18:50.637
happen. I think one of the challenges though, that operators,

18:50.787 --> 18:54.942
that administrators, whatever it is people running nursing are feeling,

18:55.077 --> 18:58.362
are experiencing that it's kind of a circular

18:58.437 --> 19:01.627
problem because you don't want to throw them to

19:01.645 --> 19:04.552
the walls, because you want to give them a mentor and you want to do

19:04.570 --> 19:07.767
everything that you describe. Those things are great in theory,

19:07.902 --> 19:10.787
but right now today on their first shift,

19:11.512 --> 19:15.427
we don't have enough CNAs, and their workload is

19:15.520 --> 19:19.087
13 patients and really should be six or eight or ten.

19:19.225 --> 19:22.627
And it really is too much. And the person was just trained and we just

19:22.645 --> 19:26.047
paid for that training. And the way the number is going to go down is

19:26.080 --> 19:31.550
by getting more people on. But you can't get more people on because

19:32.137 --> 19:35.742
you're ready for staffs. And the orientation has to be done much quicker

19:35.802 --> 19:39.547
because the same type of reasons, the urgency to get people

19:39.730 --> 19:42.802
on board. So it's very difficult to get out of that,

19:42.970 --> 19:47.527
flywheel out of that

19:47.545 --> 19:51.247
flower, getting out of the trap. Someone had to deal with

19:51.280 --> 19:54.772
that. You don't have to have an answer to this. I'm just talking

19:54.805 --> 19:58.250
about this. This is what actually happens. I'm sure you see this. Yeah, of course.

19:58.912 --> 20:01.927
We hear it all the time from our employers and most of them end up

20:01.945 --> 20:05.427
trying to solve it by hiring staffing agencies, of course, the vein

20:05.457 --> 20:07.562
of every nursing home's existence.

20:08.887 --> 20:12.217
For a lot of nursing homes, they have found a lot of success doing that

20:12.265 --> 20:15.652
because you can have on demand these two or three

20:15.670 --> 20:19.327
people that can actually plug the holes. So you can spend time and actually take

20:19.345 --> 20:22.187
the time to hire and invest a lot in hiring.

20:23.062 --> 20:26.847
But yeah, that can be really expensive. We hear from networks that they're spending

20:26.967 --> 20:31.152
millions, tens of millions of dollars a month at the peak of COVID in January.

20:31.257 --> 20:35.092
And having to eat that cost can be really difficult. And that's why,

20:35.140 --> 20:38.750
I mean, I'm a big fan of sponsoring training or setting up

20:39.337 --> 20:42.897
training programs themselves. I think it's hugely beneficial

20:42.942 --> 20:45.997
to be able to train a whole cohort together so that you have

20:46.030 --> 20:49.372
like ten or 15 people starting at the same time. And so,

20:49.405 --> 20:52.977
yes, they might not have a mentor, but they have that peer mentorship where they're

20:53.007 --> 20:56.602
able to learn from each other. And you also are able to

20:56.620 --> 21:00.337
relieve the full strength in the system through one block of people that are starting

21:00.400 --> 21:03.532
work at the same time. I think that's really great. I think there are a

21:03.535 --> 21:06.832
couple of different ways to do that. One is starting your own CA

21:06.910 --> 21:10.987
program, which comes with its own challenges, but the benefits as well. And then also

21:11.050 --> 21:15.200
hiring directly out of training programs, whether that means sponsoring people

21:15.862 --> 21:19.072
or even just like building relationships with those

21:19.105 --> 21:22.507
schools. I mean, we've heard of facilities that have just like,

21:22.585 --> 21:26.077
clean sweeping an entire class of like a

21:26.095 --> 21:29.767
CNA program has 20 people graduating and they hired like 18 out of 20,

21:29.815 --> 21:33.172
and immediately that solves their hiring problem. Right? And so,

21:33.280 --> 21:36.800
I mean, yeah, people have to be creative about where they hire from.

21:38.962 --> 21:42.652
Okay, so interesting. It is true that agency is

21:42.670 --> 21:46.752
a very slippery slope, especially for the ones who are responsible for scheduling

21:46.782 --> 21:50.167
and staffing, because if it becomes too easy to fill those

21:50.215 --> 21:54.425
holes, they're not paying for it and their paycheck is staying the same,

21:55.762 --> 21:59.197
then it's true. It can slow things down a little

21:59.230 --> 22:03.202
bit if you have the proper orientation process already in

22:03.220 --> 22:06.892
place and you know exactly what you're doing. The only issue

22:06.940 --> 22:09.892
is that you don't have the bandwidth to do it. That can be a good

22:09.940 --> 22:13.175
band aid if it's really controlled. Yeah,

22:13.612 --> 22:17.377
not just like a crutch. Right, exactly. Otherwise it

22:17.395 --> 22:20.457
does become a crutch. And that crutch can bring down the whole facility

22:20.547 --> 22:24.147
because they lose the margins.

22:24.342 --> 22:27.050
Many times margins are slimming up as it is,

22:27.562 --> 22:31.477
and contrary to what people on

22:31.495 --> 22:35.237
the street may think, many times the margins are much, much slimmer.

22:36.637 --> 22:40.627
And then they really are. Then taking agency costs and throwing it could

22:40.645 --> 22:43.822
really do them in. But your other

22:43.855 --> 22:47.300
point and also everyone tries to connect with

22:47.962 --> 22:51.877
training programs, programs, and they're not always available in every location. But even

22:51.895 --> 22:55.117
if they are, what does it take for a training

22:55.165 --> 22:59.262
program to want to partner with a particular facility,

22:59.412 --> 23:02.452
because that would be amazing. I can think of so many people that could get

23:02.470 --> 23:06.112
18 CNAs from a program that could save

23:06.175 --> 23:10.572
hundreds of thousands of dollars in the first month. But besides

23:10.767 --> 23:14.227
the care, it's just the stress level on the facility. It's a

23:14.245 --> 23:17.512
game changer. So I guess

23:17.575 --> 23:21.532
what does it take for a facility to be wanted

23:21.685 --> 23:25.337
by such a program other than asking to be connected?

23:26.587 --> 23:30.247
Yeah, I mean, we're starting to see a change in the industry where people

23:30.280 --> 23:33.217
are being more creative about reaching out to schools, which I think is great.

23:33.265 --> 23:36.652
I think it's a very natural next step. And you want to

23:36.745 --> 23:40.567
invest in creating new supply of CNAs so that the whole system,

23:40.765 --> 23:44.352
you aren't just like, reaching out to the same people in the revolving door

23:44.382 --> 23:47.752
over and over. You're actually like introducing new people who can help ease the

23:47.770 --> 23:51.132
root problem. I mean, we see a big range

23:51.147 --> 23:54.172
of approaches from facilities. We see some that just,

23:54.205 --> 23:57.837
like, reach out and are saying, hey, can you drop off a flyer?

23:57.912 --> 24:01.182
Can you let your students know that we have job offers?

24:01.272 --> 24:04.550
The problem is every other nursing home is doing that as well.

24:05.137 --> 24:08.437
To stand out, you have to do a couple of things.

24:08.575 --> 24:13.027
One, like the golden thing to do is be a clinical site for

24:13.120 --> 24:16.572
a CNA training class. That would be super ideal because you're

24:16.617 --> 24:20.602
already in touch with these students before they're even up on

24:20.620 --> 24:24.142
the job market. They're already working at your facility. They get a chance

24:24.190 --> 24:27.592
to see what the facility is like. And so,

24:27.790 --> 24:30.652
I mean, you see most of the students end up going to work at that

24:30.670 --> 24:34.147
clinical facility after they graduate if they don't have something lined up already.

24:34.330 --> 24:37.642
Also, because they're used to going in that location, the location is close by.

24:37.690 --> 24:41.247
All of that helps a lot. But I mean, for people who don't

24:41.292 --> 24:44.842
offer clinicals other things, you can offer to sponsor students

24:44.965 --> 24:49.262
who can't afford to pay. That is a very popular

24:50.212 --> 24:53.572
request from schools. They're like looking for employers to do that. Not every

24:53.605 --> 24:57.942
employer is willing to do that because it does take some risk and some operational

24:58.002 --> 25:01.552
coordination between the recruiter and

25:01.570 --> 25:05.317
the HR people who are at the nursing home with the actual program

25:05.365 --> 25:09.007
director of the school. And if you have your HR person leave, then you

25:09.010 --> 25:12.592
have to set up that program again. But other things

25:12.640 --> 25:16.102
we see creative things, like one of our schools has

25:16.120 --> 25:19.972
a graduation ceremony and always reaches out to nursing homes who

25:20.080 --> 25:24.067
can sponsor the graduation ceremony. It's probably like $250,

25:24.115 --> 25:28.422
like pay for pizza, pay for a nice venue

25:28.467 --> 25:31.822
to have the graduation ceremony at, but a huge exposure to those

25:31.855 --> 25:35.062
students. Other things we see are people

25:35.125 --> 25:38.375
trying to buy pizza for our students,

25:39.037 --> 25:42.172
like during class. Some schools like that, some schools don't really,

25:42.205 --> 25:46.100
because they want to just focus on class time. But I mean,

25:46.687 --> 25:50.227
a lot of other approaches work too. Interesting. So to

25:50.245 --> 25:51.800
be a clinical site, though,

25:53.887 --> 25:57.847
you have to have good

25:57.880 --> 26:01.882
survey results. Because I

26:01.885 --> 26:04.767
just remember one of the buildings where we were managing. We had our own CNA

26:04.827 --> 26:08.150
training program before Cope just goes back a little bit,

26:08.737 --> 26:12.172
but then we had one deficiency. I forget what

26:12.205 --> 26:15.372
level it was, but it was enough to say that, OK, we had to cancel

26:15.417 --> 26:18.072
that program in the middle, that we can't do it anymore.

26:18.117 --> 26:21.847
So not every facility is going to qualify. And even if they

26:21.880 --> 26:25.342
had a resurvey and they cleared whatever, it was something

26:25.390 --> 26:29.232
that could take many months until they're officially cleaned

26:29.247 --> 26:34.372
of whatever it is that happen there. But a

26:34.405 --> 26:38.667
practical question, I would think that CNA programs

26:38.802 --> 26:42.652
would be inundated by nursing homes that are like dying to

26:42.670 --> 26:43.625
pay for anything.

26:46.087 --> 26:50.022
Pizza will put a paper on their chairs, we'll redo your sailing,

26:50.217 --> 26:54.275
put our logo and you. Is that not the case?

26:55.237 --> 26:59.502
I mean, we see most facilities typically stop at the flyer

26:59.532 --> 27:02.900
and buy pizza market. Very few facilities go beyond that.

27:05.287 --> 27:09.267
Interesting. So this is a very real opportunity. So if anyone is struggling

27:09.327 --> 27:12.282
with that facilities and listening to this episode,

27:12.447 --> 27:16.342
this is a very real opportunity here where the

27:16.390 --> 27:20.092
ability to, let's say, to sponsor a student,

27:20.215 --> 27:23.527
that's very basic, and instead of creating the

27:23.545 --> 27:27.172
program, managing the program, yes, there's a risk, but there's a risk of

27:27.205 --> 27:31.242
doing nothing too. And it's very, very expensive. So if you sponsor

27:31.302 --> 27:34.927
five students and three of them work out, you've made your money back

27:34.945 --> 27:37.552
in one month. Especially if you have agency, you can make it back in a

27:37.570 --> 27:38.150
week.

27:42.562 --> 27:45.792
And you're not finding the CNAs, you're not convincing

27:45.852 --> 27:49.402
them to become CNAs, you're not telling them to move to

27:49.420 --> 27:52.672
your area like they're here, they want to be CNA, they want to work.

27:52.780 --> 27:54.650
You're the one who helped them out.

27:55.912 --> 27:59.782
That's extremely valuable, becoming a clinical side, if it's possible.

27:59.935 --> 28:03.247
But who wouldn't want to do that? Even just while they're there,

28:03.280 --> 28:07.077
a little bit of extra help is always very helpful.

28:07.182 --> 28:10.072
We also see a lot of schools do struggle to find clinical sites. It really

28:10.105 --> 28:13.402
depends on the location. Yeah, you don't have to be like

28:13.420 --> 28:16.567
a five star facility in order to become a clinical site.

28:16.615 --> 28:20.302
Sometimes you have a new school that's just starting up and they're looking for a

28:20.320 --> 28:23.727
clinical site, or once I switch over because they're expanding

28:23.757 --> 28:27.427
their program, I mean, opportunities there if you start to build that relationship

28:27.520 --> 28:31.102
with local school leaders. So the main thing is to figure out how you

28:31.120 --> 28:32.150
can help them.

28:33.937 --> 28:38.002
Let's talk about Dreambound. So what does Dreambound do to

28:38.020 --> 28:41.527
address this problem? Yeah, I mean,

28:41.620 --> 28:44.422
a couple of different things. One, we just want to make it really easy for

28:44.455 --> 28:47.932
people to sign up for classes, not just CNA. But CNA is

28:47.935 --> 28:52.107
a big focus. We see that a lot. Of these schools are pretty outdated.

28:52.197 --> 28:55.992
A lot of them don't have online registration or websites

28:56.052 --> 28:59.497
or posts like their class dates on their website. And so we get all that

28:59.530 --> 29:02.827
information, make a common application. So a student just

29:02.845 --> 29:06.247
needs to fill out an application once, and then they can get started with any

29:06.280 --> 29:09.725
school that we're partnered with. And at the same time,

29:10.837 --> 29:13.947
if they can't afford to pay and they're willing to work at an employer,

29:13.992 --> 29:17.932
we help employers plug into all the different schools in a given city

29:18.010 --> 29:21.352
so that they can sponsor people. So an employer can see,

29:21.445 --> 29:25.707
here are 20 people who are currently looking to get their class sponsored.

29:25.797 --> 29:29.392
Let me interview them, let me screen them, see who might be a good fit.

29:29.440 --> 29:32.752
If I want to sponsor any of these, I'm able to do that as an

29:32.770 --> 29:36.787
employer and then start creating a pipeline. We also see

29:36.925 --> 29:39.875
employers upskill their existing staff that way as well.

29:40.237 --> 29:43.852
I think that's another really great creative source of talent. A lot

29:43.870 --> 29:46.557
of success in upskilling housekeepers,

29:46.647 --> 29:50.157
dishwashers, other roles that are unlicensed

29:50.172 --> 29:53.547
to become CNAs. A lot of these people are already working at the facility.

29:53.667 --> 29:56.407
They know what it's like to be a CNA and to work at that specific

29:56.485 --> 30:00.667
facility. And so it's a no brainer to try and upskill them to an

30:00.715 --> 30:04.072
exchange that people feel really invested in. They want to stick around because

30:04.105 --> 30:07.492
they've already stuck around for six months or

30:07.540 --> 30:11.047
whatever, how long they've been at the facility. And it's a win

30:11.080 --> 30:14.797
win for everyone. Could the

30:14.905 --> 30:17.997
platform facilitate training within a facility?

30:18.192 --> 30:22.497
If there isn't a training already there? Is it just connecting training programs

30:22.542 --> 30:25.972
with employees or does it actually help or does

30:26.005 --> 30:29.525
the company, I guess, help setting these things up as well?

30:30.112 --> 30:33.202
We don't do that right now. It's definitely something I'd love to

30:33.220 --> 30:36.592
do in the future, especially just like if a

30:36.640 --> 30:39.802
facility already has a program up and running, we would love

30:39.820 --> 30:43.342
to just send them people who are looking to get started with training.

30:43.390 --> 30:46.792
That's great. That'd be great. Got it.

30:46.915 --> 30:50.302
Because we said now about upskilling people, that makes a lot of

30:50.320 --> 30:54.822
sense because I could say just from what we're doing, a quality recruit.

30:54.942 --> 30:57.747
We're helping our nursing home clients recruit.

30:57.792 --> 31:02.012
So for housekeeping positions, for dietary positions,

31:03.262 --> 31:06.652
we get tons of applicants because they don't need to be certified or

31:06.670 --> 31:09.777
anything. Tons of no colonial shows. It's a separate

31:09.807 --> 31:13.400
conversation, but there's people to work with.

31:14.587 --> 31:17.947
If we can get those people in the door. In other

31:17.980 --> 31:21.127
words, if you're going to train your current CNAs and dietary AIDS, they're easy to

31:21.145 --> 31:24.297
replace, easier to replace,

31:24.417 --> 31:28.100
but to get those DNAs, that's a little bit more difficult.

31:29.812 --> 31:34.025
Very, very fascinating. Anything else you would tell? I wanted

31:37.087 --> 31:41.412
specifically for nursing homes that are looking to track CNAs.

31:41.487 --> 31:44.300
Anything else you would like to tell before we wrap up today?

31:45.562 --> 31:49.317
Yeah, it's rough out there, so you got to be creative.

31:49.377 --> 31:53.182
You got to move fast. And, I mean,

31:53.335 --> 31:56.277
working with a bunch of different schools in an area can be really tough,

31:56.307 --> 31:59.532
but it's really rewarding. We're trying to make it easier at Dreambound so you don't

31:59.547 --> 32:03.327
have to manage as an HR representative, like, 20 different relationships

32:03.357 --> 32:06.952
with schools. You just have to manage the one on Dreambound through the platform.

32:07.045 --> 32:10.927
And so we're trying to

32:11.095 --> 32:15.942
create a new supply of health care workers to make healthcare

32:16.002 --> 32:19.702
for patients better, make facilities lives easier, and make the

32:19.720 --> 32:23.532
workers lives easier as well. Yeah, I think it's a phenomenal idea, and I'm

32:23.547 --> 32:27.172
happy that you're doing what you're doing. Are you in

32:27.205 --> 32:31.192
certain locations? We have schools all over the country.

32:31.390 --> 32:34.562
Our biggest markets are definitely Texas, California,

32:35.437 --> 32:39.612
Arizona, Colorado. I was wondering if you say Massachusetts,

32:39.762 --> 32:42.982
new York. We do have a school in Massachusetts and New York. Yeah,

32:43.060 --> 32:46.717
we work with over 150 schools around the country. Got it.

32:46.840 --> 32:50.572
If there's a school that's not currently on

32:50.605 --> 32:53.000
the platform, what does it take for them to get on the platform?

32:53.437 --> 32:56.752
Yeah, they just need to go to Dreambound.com, sign up as a

32:56.770 --> 32:59.237
school, and they can start getting students immediately.

33:01.087 --> 33:04.837
Got it. I'm playing this out because

33:04.900 --> 33:09.292
I think like a nursing home person, but if someone

33:09.490 --> 33:12.802
I have my facility. I live in Massachusetts. That's what I'm

33:12.820 --> 33:16.227
thinking. But let's say in Boston, I have a facility, and I know that there's

33:16.257 --> 33:19.852
a training program here as well, but I know there must be many other

33:19.870 --> 33:23.397
training programs so I can reach out to them directly.

33:23.517 --> 33:27.352
It would be convenient if I could press a button and your platform would

33:27.370 --> 33:30.607
already be connected with all the schools in my area. That would be very nice

33:30.685 --> 33:34.177
for me, for sure. Probably nice for them, too, because they'll be connected with

33:34.195 --> 33:37.557
places to put CNAs.

33:37.722 --> 33:41.182
Okay, I guess I guess they can go to

33:41.185 --> 33:45.112
the Dreambound.com. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, we are seeing

33:45.250 --> 33:48.297
off ad hoc relationships with some schools,

33:48.342 --> 33:52.002
work with some employers, but when you start working with multiple employers

33:52.032 --> 33:55.282
or multiple schools, that's where it gets crazy out of hand, and that's where

33:55.360 --> 33:58.562
we're trying to provide value and make that easier.

34:00.487 --> 34:03.697
If you want to manage that relationship offline, so to speak,

34:03.880 --> 34:07.557
that can work. They can work to some extent. I think the biggest,

34:07.647 --> 34:11.587
besides the fact that you dropped a lot of very valuable practical tips for

34:11.725 --> 34:15.642
nursing home folks to be able to attract and routine

34:15.777 --> 34:19.542
DNAs, which is the title of this conversation.

34:19.677 --> 34:23.687
But besides that, you're bringing out something encouraging,

34:24.337 --> 34:27.562
is that there are plenty of people that want to become

34:27.625 --> 34:31.072
CNAs and are unable to, and would be

34:31.105 --> 34:35.307
very happy to have a partnership with a health care provider,

34:35.322 --> 34:38.977
a nursing home that will help them get from where

34:38.995 --> 34:42.922
they are to where they need to be. My only question is, what is the

34:42.955 --> 34:46.927
relationship between the number? And I doubt that you have this number or if

34:46.945 --> 34:50.002
anybody has this number, but what is the relationship between the number of people

34:50.020 --> 34:53.977
who are interested in becoming CNAs? The number of CNAs that are running

34:54.070 --> 34:57.875
out of nursing homes? That's a good question.

34:58.837 --> 35:02.502
Yeah, I mean, we see for people who are leaving a nursing

35:02.532 --> 35:05.137
home about, I want to say,

35:05.200 --> 35:08.737
70% go work at a different facility and then maybe 30%

35:08.800 --> 35:12.425
bounce between different industries. Maybe they're going back to their Amazon job

35:13.087 --> 35:16.522
or whatever have you outside the industry. A lot of them still work,

35:16.555 --> 35:19.447
like, part time or PRN as a CNA. So I would say they don't leave

35:19.480 --> 35:22.025
the industry altogether. It might be their second job.

35:22.837 --> 35:26.362
But yeah, we would love to be

35:26.425 --> 35:30.552
more people coming in than leaving right now. That's not the case because CNN

35:30.582 --> 35:33.425
class is expensive, but that's something hopefully we can fix.

35:34.012 --> 35:37.447
But here's the question. I know we're a little bit beyond our

35:37.480 --> 35:40.562
end time, but if you're okay, I just want to continue to drop.

35:41.887 --> 35:45.207
If we were to completely remove the ping

35:45.297 --> 35:48.792
obstacle for potential CNAs and completely remove

35:48.852 --> 35:52.282
all the technical issues of finding a class and finding a

35:52.285 --> 35:55.057
job, all you got to do is click this button,

35:55.210 --> 35:58.852
basically, and we will pay for your training and get you a

35:58.870 --> 36:02.727
job somewhere near you. Because there are nursing

36:02.757 --> 36:06.127
homes everywhere. Wherever there are people in this country, at least there are

36:06.145 --> 36:09.502
nursing homes. And by the way, there are places where there

36:09.520 --> 36:12.727
are no people still are nursing homes. And I don't know how that

36:12.745 --> 36:16.182
works, but we have clients like that, really rural areas

36:16.197 --> 36:19.852
that they have a nursing home too. So if that was

36:19.870 --> 36:23.227
to be the case so you believe that there's I

36:23.245 --> 36:26.152
mean, you know, I guess because this is what you do, that there is a

36:26.170 --> 36:29.712
significant number of a very significant

36:29.787 --> 36:33.397
number of people. This is what I'm I don't know if there's a question or

36:33.430 --> 36:37.147
a comment, but what I'm hearing is that it's not as bleak as

36:37.180 --> 36:40.777
it looks like when you're dealing with nursing home recruitment or seeing a recruitment all

36:40.795 --> 36:44.602
day, is that there are a lot of people, even without quantifying them,

36:44.695 --> 36:48.200
who, if you remove these barriers, they would be very interested.

36:53.587 --> 36:57.127
Are you bringing people into these nursing programs as

36:57.145 --> 36:59.387
well, or are you just connecting?

37:01.087 --> 37:05.157
I guess the question is there's

37:05.172 --> 37:08.902
a number? How many people are in this bucket of they're entering the

37:08.920 --> 37:12.502
workforce, they graduated high school, or they're kind

37:12.520 --> 37:15.892
of in between jobs, or they're busy with the family

37:15.940 --> 37:19.537
now they want to return to the workforce and

37:19.600 --> 37:22.972
they would love to become a nurse CNA and begin their

37:23.005 --> 37:26.347
health care journey, and they have these obstacles. I guess

37:26.380 --> 37:29.797
the question is, how do we get more people into the funnel so that they

37:29.830 --> 37:33.397
actually end up going along this path and

37:33.505 --> 37:37.372
solving this problem? I think one

37:37.405 --> 37:40.887
that will definitely help is as the industry

37:40.962 --> 37:44.422
has more people enter and then understanding becomes less

37:44.455 --> 37:48.217
of an issue, then some of the stigma around

37:48.340 --> 37:51.472
this is a really tough job. I'm overworked. I have to work so much over.

37:51.505 --> 37:54.952
Time starts to go away and it's more about taking care of

37:54.970 --> 37:58.477
patients who are now having a really great experience that

37:58.495 --> 38:02.512
don't have these violations of policies that

38:02.650 --> 38:06.962
people are kind of horrified to see the reputation of the whole industry improves.

38:07.762 --> 38:10.672
And we're starting to see this in some of the cities where we're biggest in,

38:10.780 --> 38:14.367
we have fully staffed some of our employers because they have hired

38:14.427 --> 38:17.472
people who that they sponsored and now they don't have staffing

38:17.517 --> 38:20.812
problems anymore. And we're starting to even see, like in the whole city

38:20.875 --> 38:24.517
as a whole now there are enough CNAs such that

38:24.565 --> 38:27.747
hiring becomes less of a problem compared to some of the other cities

38:27.792 --> 38:32.047
where we're just entering. And then that's the

38:32.080 --> 38:35.977
number one problem for nursing homes. That's very interesting. So a

38:35.995 --> 38:39.472
city that personally comes

38:39.505 --> 38:43.372
with sharing, you don't have to a particular city where the

38:43.405 --> 38:45.725
staffing is not really such an issue.

38:46.462 --> 38:48.650
Houston is definitely a big one.

38:50.512 --> 38:53.087
People are fully staffed in many facilities,

38:53.437 --> 38:57.287
which is crazy. That's not a little town.

38:59.287 --> 39:02.652
That's very interesting. So you're

39:02.682 --> 39:07.632
saying potentially that if you connect that's

39:07.647 --> 39:10.942
the thing. The most effective thing is sometimes very

39:10.990 --> 39:15.062
simple. So basically what the company is doing is connecting

39:16.162 --> 39:22.122
schools with employers. Right. And employers

39:22.167 --> 39:25.797
are usually just trying to pull CNAs from other buildings. Right. The typical

39:25.842 --> 39:29.502
recruitment is you're posting the job. If some of the CNA they're

39:29.532 --> 39:32.832
working most of them are working already as a CNA. And they're

39:32.847 --> 39:36.082
going to either try you out or do you as a second job or a

39:36.085 --> 39:40.167
part time job or whatever, and you're forever fighting with the facilities down the block,

39:40.302 --> 39:43.822
raising your rates to levels that you cannot afford or

39:43.855 --> 39:47.077
sustain. Hoping the government's going to bail us out, which do

39:47.095 --> 39:50.150
not hold your breath, because it probably won't happen.

39:50.512 --> 39:53.392
At the end of the day, if there's not enough money to sustain the business,

39:53.440 --> 39:56.225
the whole nursing can close down. And many of them have.

39:57.862 --> 40:00.952
You're saying this so simple solutions is not a theory, something that

40:00.970 --> 40:04.672
you've actually done. It's just by connecting the schools with

40:04.705 --> 40:08.047
employers in a very effective, seamless way that itself.

40:08.230 --> 40:11.892
You've fully staffed some of those clients,

40:12.027 --> 40:15.772
which is amazing. Okay. I find this very

40:15.805 --> 40:20.202
fascinating. I appreciate you sharing what you're doing here on the podcast.

40:20.382 --> 40:23.762
We're definitely going to share this with our listenership.

40:24.862 --> 40:28.850
Look out for that at the nursinghomepodcast.com.

40:32.212 --> 40:35.750
When you see an innovation like, how come I didn't think of it?

40:37.762 --> 40:40.262
This is a very simple concept,

40:41.962 --> 40:45.382
but it really makes a lot of sense. I definitely have to check out

40:45.385 --> 40:48.502
your website a little bit better and see if it makes sense for some of

40:48.520 --> 40:51.125
our clients to implement this.

40:52.762 --> 40:56.122
Amazing. Thank you very much for sharing that with us.

40:56.305 --> 40:58.175
Yeah, thank you for having me on.

41:03.475 --> 41:06.940
I'm just trying to think, if I know people who

41:06.957 --> 41:10.480
have facilities really struggling with staffing in particular areas, they want you

41:10.527 --> 41:13.290
to focus on getting set up in these areas.

41:13.470 --> 41:16.825
Is it just like grassroots effort that if people discover it is what it is,

41:16.887 --> 41:20.595
or can they work with you directly to try to create a network

41:20.685 --> 41:23.150
with injury bound if it doesn't already exist,

41:24.775 --> 41:28.420
we can do all of the above. I mean, there are definitely certain I

41:28.422 --> 41:31.540
mean, we're getting a lot of demand, I would say. So when we get more

41:31.557 --> 41:35.215
demand, we're prioritizing more than others, but we

41:35.232 --> 41:38.287
want to scale up to serve the whole country and millions of people.

41:39.475 --> 41:42.865
Amazing. All right, thank you so much. It's a pleasure meeting you and discussing this

41:42.882 --> 41:46.570
today. Keep it doing what you're doing. Thank you.

41:46.647 --> 41:47.600
Likewise.

42:00.625 --> 42:04.195
Now that you've enjoyed this episode of the nursing home

42:04.272 --> 42:08.220
podcast, I'd really appreciate if you'd rate this podcast

42:08.385 --> 42:12.160
and let everyone else know what an amazing resource this

42:12.192 --> 42:16.410
is for those wanting to learn anything and everything about the nursing home industry.

42:16.530 --> 42:19.710
So head on over to ratethispodcast.

42:19.830 --> 42:22.120
Comnaursinghome. Again,

42:22.272 --> 42:25.915
ratethispodcast.com nursinghome. Leave me

42:25.932 --> 42:29.185
a review and let the world know what an amazing show this

42:29.217 --> 42:33.060
truly is. Thank you so much for listening and make sure to stay tuned

42:33.105 --> 42:36.225
and subscribe so you don't miss any other episodes.